MATRIX MIND CONTROL
AN INTERVIEW WITH JACK TRUE
MARCH 25, 2012. In my new collection, THE MATRIX REVEALED, I interview Jack True, among other cutting-edge researchers.
Jack was the most innovative hypnotherapist I’ve ever come across. His understanding of what came to be called The Matrix was unparalleled.
During his years working with patients, he developed methods of unhypnotizing people, because, as he said, “I stopped doing conventional hypnosis when I realized the people who were coming to see me were already in a trance.”
That was the turning point in Jack’s career. He spent the rest of his life working on that problem.
Jack was instrumental in getting me my first book contract, in 1987. The book was AIDS INC. He viewed it as “an attack on the medical trance,” and it did turn out to be that. [My book, AIDS INC., is included in THE MATRIX REVEALED collection.]
The interview below (one of our earliest) took place in 1987, after several prior conversations about elites and the powers-that-be.
There is much more I could say about Jack, but I’ll just present the interview–
Jack began with several remarks about mind control:
“First of all, if you want to know anything about the mind, you have to get rid of the idea of categorizing and labeling mental states. Psychiatry is based on that model, which is really a business model. It creates patients.
“And as the whole study of the mind falls more and more into the hands of psychiatrists, what the patient has to say about his own experience becomes less and less important. The psychiatrist is mainly there to make a diagnosis and then to prescribe drugs.
“So the patient believes less and less in the idea of HIS OWN UNIQUE experience. What makes him different and unique becomes less and less important to him. This whole trend is itself a form of mind control. You need to understand that.
“We have this crazy situation, where the very means to make a diagnosis and supposedly help the mind is really a form of mind control.
“I take a different path. To me, what the patient says and what he comes up with are very, very important. It’s the essence of what I’m dealing with. It’s unique. If a patient, in a light trance, tells me he’s in a field smelling flowers, that’s where he is. The field and the flowers aren’t referring to something else. They’re not symbolic. The field is the field and the flowers are the flowers. I’m not interpreting anything. I’m not making inferences. Understand? I didn’t put the patient in that field. I didn’t suggest he go there. I didn’t give him hints or clues. If that’s where he is when, in that light trance, he lets go of his buzzing thoughts and his distractions, then that’s where he is. I don’t put labels on it. I don’t think to myself, well obviously he has this condition or that condition. I don’t think, well, he’s remembering something from his childhood or from last week. I go with what he gives me. Literally. People sometimes have a hard time understanding that.
“The second thing is, you need to realize that mind control through straight propaganda, from the media or the government or corporations or schools, needs a fertile environment. People who act like robots or puppets or androids are easy targets. They just suck in information of any kind and spit it out. They believe what they’re told. But how did they get that way? How did they become puppets to begin with? That’s the real question. Are you going to blame upbringing, education, genes? Are you prepared to say that puppets are ‘made?’ We really need to think about that. Because that’s the straight Victim model. In that model, people have no free will of their own. They’re ‘worked on’ and created like little machines. That’s a very popular view, because people like abdicating responsibility for their own lives and minds. They like to go on and on about what’s being done to them and how it’s all out of their control. That view of things has been overplayed. It’s gone too far.
“There’s another way to look at this. Another side to this. People who live like puppets have chosen that role for themselves. It’s a role. The Puppet. It’s like being cast in a play. ‘Okay, we have the role of a puppet. Anybody interested in playing it? You’ll have to suck in information like a vacuum cleaner and accept it. You’ll have to put your independence on the shelf.’ [Emphasis added.]
“There are external factors that contribute to making a puppet, but that’s far from the whole story. It’s a role. It’s a whole way of living and acting. And once a person takes on that role, his view of reality shifts. Things line up differently. For example, the Group becomes far more important. Because there are other puppets, and they link together. They form a society of their own. They recognize each other.
“They tend to mesh into a network. A web. And this network gravitates toward accepting the most common and official explanation of reality. The network sniffs that out and buys it. They’re all playing the role of Puppet.
“Here’s the most interesting part. The network can ‘wake up.’ They can, altogether, wake up to something new. But it’s a FAKE waking up. It’s staged. It’s an officially certified waking up. For instance, a new social campaign sweeps the land. It’s now officially certified to look at a social factor THIS way. And the network of puppets sniffs it out and gets on board. Yesterday, they looked at that same social factor THAT way, but today, all of a sudden, they’re looking at it THIS way.
“Now, when people [who aren’t puppets] see this sudden amazing shift, they say, ‘Well, that’s a brainwashing scheme. All those puppets over there are being brainwashed by the press and the government. Yesterday, they believed X, and today they believe Y.’ And that’s true. But I’m interested in what goes on a deeper level. How the puppets became puppets in the first place. And part of the answer, an important part of the answer is, they CHOSE to be puppets. They chose the role. Individually chose it. [Emphasis added.]
“And once they chose it, they decreased their own available IQ, they dimmed their own perception, they adapted to the role. People can do that. People are very flexible. They can play out all sorts of roles, and they can make the necessary adjustments.
“So it turns out that a puppet isn’t stupid at all. He’s very smart. He’s certainly smart enough to know how to diminish his own IQ. That’s a good trick. It is. And IF he became aware that he chose that role, Puppet, and NOW he decided he didn’t like the role anymore, he could experience a rise in IQ. I’ve actually seen that happen. I worked with a patient who was brought in by his mother. And in the course of working with this boy over a long period of time, I watched him gradually become aware that he had chosen to be a puppet. It was quite something. At the end of it, he thought it was quite funny. He said to me: ‘I taught myself to be stupid.’ Well, he wasn’t stupid anymore. He went on to demonstrate that in school and in his life. The change was extraordinary.”
Jack and I discussed this boy for a while and then we sat down to do the formal interview.
Q: (Rappoport) Okay, let’s get started.
A: (Jack) Are people ready for this? It’s pretty far-out stuff.
Q: I’m just interested in what you have to say.
A: Well, that’s you. When people consider a subject like mind control, they immediately think about what “the controllers” are doing to their victims. They assume that’s the whole subject.
A: For 99.9 percent of the people on this planet, mind control occurs in a variety of other ways. So the question is: what’s actually happening?
You see, we have this word “programming.” It’s used as if everybody knows what it means. As if somebody installs a fully formed program in your head. A set of operating instructions.
Q: And that’s not so?
A: It’s mostly a metaphor. “Well, he’s programmed to act that way.”
Q: Whereas the truth is?
A: The truth is different. For example, suppose you put a program in your OWN head? Suppose you’re the programmer AND the program-ee?
Q: Obviously, you don’t think much of the term “programming.”
A: It’s too easy. I’m interested in what people can discover about themselves when they aren’t burdened with simplistic preconceptions. Do you see? If you have a package of ideas and terms in your hip pocket when you explore the mind, you’re going to find what you already know. You’re going to plaster over whatever you encounter with old stale conceptions. I want to get away from that.
If you asked people what they think goes on in the subconscious, you’d get a fairly predictable spread of opinions. Whereas I take it somewhere else completely. For instance, suppose I said what happens in the subconscious is ART. Suppose I said it was an ongoing process of building structures.
Q: What? What goes on in the subconscious is art?
Q: That’s quite an unusual idea.
A: See, I don’t think it’s unusual at all. You know what I think is unusual? People who walk around doing everything in their power to “be average.” That’s extremely weird to me. You’ve got millions of people in America doing that. Where did that come from? Was everyone so influenced by puppet shows when they were kids, they decided to grow up to be puppets? (laughs)
People striving to be normal are strange. We accept it because it’s happening all around us. People are “behaving normally.” You want to talk about mind control? Talk about that! If people expended a tenth of the energy they use to be normal on something very creative, a lot of problems we have would automatically go away. Think about the amount of sheer energy it takes to maintain that normal front day after day.
You know, there are a whole lot of people who show up at therapists’ offices because they want to figure out how to be normal. Average. They’re pushing that as the grand solution. NORMAL is their idea of how to have a relationship with the world. Do you see? So what I’m saying is that NORMAL is a front, a mask. And behind it, people have a different relationship with the world. That’s what they hide. They hide it from other people and they hide it from themselves.
Q: The idea that a person is creating art in his subconscious. Can you give me an example?
A: I once had a patient who was quite brilliant and knew a great deal about deep politics and various elites and their machinations. But…he was in a trance.
Q: What do you mean?
A: He, outwardly, was very active. Lots of energy. Involved in his work, and in projects. But he felt trapped. We did a number of sessions. I put him in a light trance. I didn’t sink him down to the bottom of the well. Just a light trance, so that all sorts of random thoughts quieted down, so he could relax. And then there it was.
Q: There it was?
A: Yes. He was sitting in a swamp. He was mired in something. He was very passive in a central area of his mind, his consciousness.
Q: You talk about it as if you could see it.
A: I didn’t have to see it. He could. He did. Eventually, he told me all about it.
Q: You mean he regressed to a time in the past where he became passive, where something bad had happened to him?
A: No, it was much more graphic than that. He began talking as if he were IN A LANDSCAPE, and he described it to me. It was like something out of a gloomy novel. Barren place. Muddy streams. Gray.
Q: Do you think he had actually been in a place like that?
A: You’re going in the wrong direction.
A: You’re missing it.
Q: What am I missing?
A: You’re trying to use conventional ideas to explain what he was experiencing. It doesn’t operate that way. He was THERE. He was surrounded by this landscape. He described it. I didn’t prompt him. I didn’t guide him. I didn’t suggest anything to him. The important thing is that, in this light trance, he found himself there. You can say it was symbolic. You can say all sorts of things about it. But what you say doesn’t matter. I go with what I get from the patient. And what I got was a description of this passive place and state of mind. It was encompassing. He had never CONSCIOUSLY been there before. But, over a period of sessions, as he fleshed it all out for me, he explained his state of mind in that place, and he became aware of it. It was profound. Not for me. For him.
Q: And then what happened?
A: Many things. He experienced jolts of energy. In his body. They would come and go. He felt various emotions. Frustration, anger, and that passivity. He saw energy.
Q: He saw energy?
A: In several different ways. At one point, he reported seeing sub-atomic energy. Fields of particles moving.
Q: What did you do?
A: What do you think I did? I went along with it.
Q: Did you think it was strange? Did you think he was imagining it? Hallucinating it?
A: You’re trying to goad me, right?
Q: A little.
A: So he’s seeing these fields of particles. They’re moving at different speeds. Some are slow, some are fast, others seem to be wandering around as if they’re lost. This goes on for quite a while. Over the course of several sessions. He’s really intrigued by this. Then one day he kind of shivers and says his mind and these particles merged.
He’s shocked. He says his own mind and these particles “got together.” Not just now, but sometime in the past. He describes this merging between his mind and these physical particles. How they meet and link up. How they form a kind of structure.
Q: What kind of structure?
A: Different configurations. Interlocking shapes. Geometric shapes. Symmetrical. Others are more vague.
Q: He’s interested in this?
A: Excited. He starts talking a mile a minute. He’s relating what he sees as if he can’t get it out fast enough. It’s as if he’s looking at some huge building or even a city, and he’s seeing pieces of it, and progressively the pieces are bigger, and they’re coming into view. Finally, one day he tells me that he’s figured out “how it works.” His mind and these particles have become joined. It’s not some sort of spiritual connection. It’s not enlightenment. It’s a habit. That’s what he called it. A habit. As if, he said, he was some kind of engineer, and he was building a structure. But, he said, and this is a key, he had been doing all this UNCONSCIOUSLY. Subconsciously. It was an ongoing preoccupation. It wasn’t just a one-time thing. And it took energy to do this. It took lots of energy.
Q: He said that.
A: Yes. And then I realized there was something different about his physical appearance. It was hard to pinpoint. But it was as if he had clarified. His features were more…vivid. I noticed his eyes were clearer. His gestures were more definite. I had the sense a knot of confusion had been undone. He told me this subconscious “building” he had been doing…he felt this mandate, this imperative within himself to “be this engineer.” He was a bit troubled by that, but he was also excited.
Q: This is VERY far-out stuff.
A: Again, I want to make it very clear that I was following along with him. I wasn’t guiding him in the slightest. It is very far-out, but not to me. You see, I’m used to having people tell me what they find, what they discover. I don’t care what it is. I’m just working from what they tell me. I’m not doing anything else.
Q: So what was the outcome of working with this man?
A: Well, I can tell you that his physical conditions, and he had a few, resolved in a dramatic way. He had a balance problem, and that just went away completely. His fatigue went away. He started to sleep well for the first time in years.
Q: Would you say he had been in a chronic trance, until he discovered he was doing this subconscious “building of structures?”
A: I would.
Q: Explain that.
A: This structure he was subconsciously building, on and on and on, was his habit. It became trance-like, the ongoing building. And it was debilitating for him. It used up a whole lot of his energy.
Let me give you a metaphor for it. Every day, you carry water. Okay? You’re carrying buckets of water to the same place. You’re digging a trench, and you’re making a stream. Every single day. But you don’t consciously know you’re building the stream. You get up in the morning and you go to work and you buy things at the store, and you come home and sit with your family and talk. MEANWHILE you’re still building this stream. And it requires energy and it takes energy away from you. It’s exhausting you. And it’s so repetitious. It’s no longer fun. It’s deeply boring. It’s wearing you down. And it eventually puts you in a kind of walking trance. At some level, it puts you in a place of accepting your fate, that you’ll be building this stream forever. You’re accepting that reality. You’re passive in that way. You believe that IS reality.
Q: So do you wake up from that?
A: That, my boy, is what my life’s work is all about. I’ve developed many strategies.
Q: Do they involve trying to dismantle the “building project?”
A: I tried that and I found it was unworkable.
Q: What makes it unworkable?
A: Well, if you’re absolutely devoted, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to building castles in the sand, and I come along and convince you to tear them down and stop making them, do you think that’s going to have a lasting effect? We can kick down castles and smooth out the sand, but eventually you’re going to be back at the beach doing it again.
Q: So if that’s unworkable, what then?
A: First of all, I WOULD SAY THAT THE HUMAN RACE HAS A VERY SOLID ADDICTION. THE ADDICTION INVOLVES THE SUBCONSCIOUS INVENTION OF SYSTEMS AND STRUCTURES. AND PATTERNS. So what I began developing were exercises I could use with people, exercises through which they would invent or create in new ways, in unaccustomed ways. In ways that would break that habit, that subconscious habit.
Q: Has it worked?
A: It’s working. They gain back energy. They sometimes lose physical problems. They feel different. They begin to approach life in new ways.
My comments on the interview: Looking back on it now, Jack was presenting a description of how the mind and reality “merge” in a kind of Matrix. In many later interviews, Jack goes further in explaining his strategies for transcending this situation. As you can see from his remarks here, he wasn’t making suggestions to his patients while they were in a light trance. That method didn’t interest him, once he decided they were already, in a sense, in a state of hypnosis when they came to him.
As a result of his training, Jack initially took the position that hypnosis and suggestion could change behavior for the better. Later on, he abandoned that idea. He found ways of getting patients to describe what they were seeing and experiencing on a subconscious level—and then using techniques that would liberate them from their “habits,” their unconscious and repetitious actions that drained away energy and put them in a passive state.
In the conversation above, Jack was intentionally NOT covering certain forms of attempted mind control based on induced trauma, chemicals, electronics, etc. He wanted, rather, to explore less known territory.
In another interview, Jack once said to me, “Some people think accepting reality is an advanced spiritual state. Well, accepting reality can allow you to be freer from stress, but all by itself, it eventually becomes a formula for passivity, repetition, profound boredom, and subconscious depletion of energy. You form a de facto religion of Reality-As-It-Is, and you worship at that altar. YOU GLUE YOURSELF ON TO REALITY and the result is a kind of weave or mesh, which is a trance, a hypnotic state. You don’t walk around looking like a zombie, but in a major place in your consciousness, you’re trying to abandon your immense creative power…”
Jon is the author of a new collection, THE MATRIX REVEALED. He has been working as an investigative reporter for 30 years.