More than one Vegas shooter, the evidence builds

More than one Vegas shooter; evidence builds

by Jon Rappoport

October 3, 2017

Lone shooter? Really? And this is supposed to be more than a convenient fantasy?

Yesterday, I did a brief analysis of the number of people killed and wounded at the Vegas Concert (573) in roughly four and half minutes, which is the police estimate of the duration of the attack.

The lone shooter killed or wounded 2.1 persons per second. It is HIGHLY doubtful Paddock could have done that. His distance from the concert, his lack of professional skill, his state of mind, among other factors, rule against it.

Any competent and honest law-enforcement analyst would see a huge red flag right away.

But of course, multiple shooters destroys the official narrative and opens the door to an investigation that could expose, for example, an intentional false flag operation.

Here is a piece of Jeff Rense’s analysis of rate-of-fire vs. people struck by bullets. It cuts to the core of the absurd lone shooter assumption:

“…a potential MAXIMUM of only 360 rounds could be fired at full auto burst with NO magazine changes in the approximate four minutes or 240 seconds of the shooting!”

“So, Paddock didn’t fire 360 rounds in 240 seconds because he had to stop and change magazines…probably 30 round mags. That would be THIRTEEN magazine changes in the 240 seconds. And it is reported he fired from both broken out windows in the room/s.”

“Survivors state there were shooting pauses and that is when they would run.”

“Let’s say Paddock managed to get off an amazing 300 rounds in 4 minutes (or 240 seconds) and hit someone with EVERY ROUND.”

“Remember, there were 573 killed and wounded according to late statistics.”

“WHO, then, fired off the other full-auto 273 rounds also without missing a single shot ?!”

Another man who apparently has significant professional background re weapons has sent me his detailed analysis:

“There is NO WAY in hell that this inexperienced guy was able to hit 500+ people, at a down sloping range of approximately 250-350 yards using a make-shift weapon modified to shot automatically. Here are some reasons why and you can check with other experts to verify my points.”

“1. It was dark and no matter how well lit, there are many shadows to hide in.

2. Simple a ‘sear’ (pronounced see-er) modification would have only permitted one entire magazine to shoot all at once with no select fire (being able to start and stop).

3. There are some devices (like AutoGlove and Bump Fire) that can simulate full automatic fire, but they cannot be used accurately or effectively.

4. Even if the shooter was able to somehow obtain a full normal functioning automatic rifle, anyone with military experience can tell you that the rifles are difficult to control when firing more than 3 round bursts – especially a .308 or AK47 type. This is because the rifle will uncontrollably rise if automatic fire is constant.

5. After the first 15 or so seconds, the crowd scattered and took cover.

6. I don’t have a count of how many pieces of empty brass (fired rounds) they have recovered, but knowing how many shots were fired compared to how many people were hit will tell you the hit ratio. If this guy did this in 20 seconds, we needed him desperately in Afghanistan!

7. To fire 500 aimed shoots and swap out magazines would have taken him about 15-20 minutes, and there is no way that each shot would have hit someone – more than likely would have missed.”

“To put in perspective…. Say a guy purchases an expensive bolt action rifle in .308 with a nice expensive scope. Without experience, someone would have to mount the scope for him and do a rough sighting in with a laser. This individual then takes this rifle to a range in broad daylight with no stress and using a bench rest and breathing techniques and all the time in the world and fires at a target 300 yards. It is possible, but doubtful if that person could hit a large refrigerator at that range UNLESS they had LOTS OF PRACTICE and EXPERIENCE. For every 1 minute (1/60th of a degree) of angle change at the rifle, the bullet would vary by 3 inches at 300 yards. For this untrained guy to be wildly shooting with a high heart rate at nighttime? Well, bullets would be going everywhere!”

I fully understand that the estimates of 573 killed and wounded, and the police statement that all the shooting took place in four and half minutes, may be off. These figures may not be precise.

Nevertheless, they are a good and proper starting point. And even allowing for later adjustments, the evidence for multiple shooters and against a lone amateur like Paddock is stunning.

So why won’t law-enforcement take notice?

Because, in certain cases with great consequences, the overall agenda and the direction of an investigation are set from offices far higher than the positions of the actual detectives and agents on the scene.

“This is what we want to know. Only this. Everything else is off limits.”

But it’s not off limits for us.


power outside the matrix

(To read about Jon’s mega-collection, Power Outside The Matrix, click here.)


Jon Rappoport

The author of three explosive collections, THE MATRIX REVEALED, EXIT FROM THE MATRIX, and POWER OUTSIDE THE MATRIX, Jon was a candidate for a US Congressional seat in the 29th District of California. He maintains a consulting practice for private clients, the purpose of which is the expansion of personal creative power. Nominated for a Pulitzer Prize, he has worked as an investigative reporter for 30 years, writing articles on politics, medicine, and health for CBS Healthwatch, LA Weekly, Spin Magazine, Stern, and other newspapers and magazines in the US and Europe. Jon has delivered lectures and seminars on global politics, health, logic, and creative power to audiences around the world. You can sign up for his free NoMoreFakeNews emails here or his free OutsideTheRealityMachine emails here.

227 comments on “More than one Vegas shooter, the evidence builds

  1. Eliza Ayres says:

    Reblogged this on Blue Dragon Journal and commented:
    Law enforcement won’t take notice because the overall agenda is coming from higher up… so unless some brave officer comes forward…

    • Mandalay taxi driver live video > https://youtu.be /fEf7HObspB0

      • Tanner says:

        Lots of lights flickering and no holes in any windows other than where the shooter was. 4th floor has poor view and a poor choice of a shooting position. No reports from the 4th floor, people on the shooter’s floor did report gun shots.

        […]

        • mortimer snerd says:

          ALSO….In every one of the 4 video’s I’ve seen with the flickering light of a supposed secondary shooter….the light keeps flashing AFTER the sound stops…..Light travels faster than sound….think about it. Pretty sure it is just a fire alarm that was reportedly set off all over the building.

        • Curtis says:

          Put on some headphones, pay attention to 1 hour, 52 minutes, and 51 seconds of Police audio:

          https://soundcloud.com /user-342651909/sets/las-vegas-police-shooting

          Also note in the Taxi gals video, you hear immediately to 2 distinct gunfires, then quiet to the 46 second mark where you here distance gunfire, then quiet to the 1:07 mark where you hear close proximity gunfire, and then so on. I also hear on that video, at least two distinct calipers/weapons. Now, some people are calling all these “echo”. They are retarded, maybe never fired an automatic, and surely never been in a urban environment. There is SOME reverb in the video, but not enough to GRASP the actual fire. They WANT you to believe there is only one shooter.

          Also, this is cut and paste because I don’t want to write it out again, but here goes:

          The police are saying that “security camera’s” placed by Paddock were not working. Of course they are not “working”. They are not working, because the FBI put those camera’s there and this was an FBI sting gone wrong. Why would Paddock have 2 rooms, because the 2nd room was the sting operations room. Paddock was in on the sting.

          Eric Paddock: “Steve had no help… Steve didn’t take help… it did not take a village for Steve…”

          “Steve was an arm…”

          *Eric Paddock Realizes Mistake*

          “I’m sorry… Please don’t…. I’m using a colloquial term…”

          Steve was what? Was an arm… y of love?

          Also note one of Paddock’s once leased planes is now registered to a intel/defense contractor. Paddock was an arms dealer. Used by the FBI to initiate the sting… against… WHO? Somehow, the WHO was tipped off, and killed Paddock. They then commenced the Vegas shooting as a target of opportunity and DIVERSION to escape (listen to police audio and count the DIVERSIONS!). Was it a “security guard’ who was shot outside Paddock’s room, or an agent? In conjunction with this video, which I have downloaded all of 1 hour 52 minutes and 52 seconds of and can be found here:

          https://soundcloud.com /user-342651909

          there is another interesting video taken by a Taxi Driver gal which is here:

          https://youtu.be /fJaTKiap-98

          Note in this video the immediate multiple gunfire, then silence. Then gunfire at a distance, then silence, then gunfire IN CLOSE PROXIMITY, and at least 2, maybe 3 different calipers/weapons, etc. They want you to believe that most of this fire is “ECHO”. BS! There is SOME reverb in it, but as an ex-para, I can assure you I know what I am hearing. Then, there are the pics released of Paddocks room. Where in the hell are all the spent shell casings. A few scattered here and there. Then, note the pic of Paddocks dead body. Somehow, after shooting himself in the mouth, he feel over, and his lower leg slipped under the bipodded weapon laying on the floor. BS. Someone placed that bipodded weapon there. Everything the FBI, who is MENTORING the Sheriff, is telling from hereon, is a narrative… because the FBI will NOT admit… it F**KED UP. This was a STING Operation that went completely South. Immediately after this happened EVERYONE said they just couldn’t possibly see Paddock doing this. Now what are you hearing? That he has been going through a long slide of MADNESS. They are LYING to you. Setting up a FALSE narrative, to burn their dead operative, to alleviate their f**k up.

        • melody brown says:

          Very good point!

    • Dale Ruff says:

      “This replacement shoulder stock turns a semi-automatic rifle into a weapon that can fire at a rate of 400 to 800 rounds per minute,” So in 4 1/2 minutes, with many bumb stock weapons, he could get off 2000-3500 rounds in a crowd of 22,000. He hit about 600. PCR, Rappaport, and others claim this is impossible. They are wrong. if you shoot 2500 rounds into a crowd of 22,000 from 400 ft above them, it is easy to hit 600 of them.

      But paranoia runs deep
      it starts when your home isn’t free.

      • David Crowe says:

        Not only could he have fired enough bullets, but people are also injured or even killed by shrapnel (e.g. one bullet can hit something hard and turn into multiple lethal fragments).

      • doncline says:

        Originally the news services said “72 minutes,” which is ridiculous. Jon Rappaport says four and a half minutes, which is equally ridiculous. The police are now saying just over eleven minutes, which is quite reasonable. Leave all the speculation alone; the only possible purpose for a false flag of this kind is to justify gun control, and this does not justify gun control and no one is going to support gun control except the freaking commies and their useful idiots, and no one is going to obey gun control if it does somehow get illegally passed into color of law. If it was a false flag it was a wasted effort and not worth the cost of bullets. So all your speculation is doing is muddying the waters so no one will believe the forensics when they do come out. And they will come out.

        • Noname says:

          The timeline goes like this: The guy stars and keeps on shooting for around 10 minutes, before a security guard finds his room and he shoots him. After that the stops shooting… Stephen is believed to have shot himself then.. the SWAT team took then almost an hour to go into the room, for safety reasons, because he wasn’t shooting anymore. Understand?

        • Dale Ruff says:

          The paranoid claims that these mass shootings are orchestrated to bring about gun control or elimination is absurd, since, after each spectacular shooting, gun sales skyrocket, and they have never led to stricter gun laws. By the logic of the orchestrated false flag theory, the most likely perpetrator would be the NRA, since their masters in the weapons industry, who fund them and whom they serve, profit after each mass murder.

          Gun control in the form of universal background checks, bans on assault weapons, bans on the mentally ill obtaining guns, etc. are all supported by strong majorities of the public. So why don’t we have rational gun regulations? Because the NRA uses its money and propaganda to bully politicians, supporting those who thwart gun regulations and punishing those who advocate.

          So the real reason we do not have universal background checks, like all other advanced nations, is not a lack of logic or public support but a lack of democracy, with the gun industry controlling politicians, legislation, and regulation.

          The real reason the people’s support for rational gun laws has been ignored is the fact that we are ruled by corporate fascism, with dominant corporations using the power of their wealth to control elections, legislation, policy, and regulation.

          The single most effective way to create instant sales and profits for the gun makers would be to
          either plot mass murders or, as is most likely the case, block laws which would prevent them.

          This is by any measure, criminal negligence, and we can blame the murder profiteers for most of the 150,000 murders since 9/11, as well as most of the 250,000 suicides by gun. Corporate fascism, whether in Nazi Germany or America, has always thrived on violence, with violence at home and criminal wars abroad, two sides of the same coin of inverted totalitarianism.

          If we want to end the carnage, we must first end the oligarchic betrayal of the promise of democracy (equality and consent of the governed, as proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence) and form a democratic Republic in which our representative represent the will of the people, not the profit interests of the powerful corporations who today run the nation under the guise of democracy.

          The root of the problem of mass violence is not that the people don’t support rational gun laws but rather that the people don’t count.

          This link
          http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/politics/bipartisan-gun-control-policies-majorities/index.html
          present pewresearch results that show bipartisan majority support for 5 major gun law reforms, and a recent Quinnipiac poll found that 92% of gun owners support universal background checks.

          The theory that it is impossible to shoot and wound 178 people (58 dead, 120 wounded, according to the hospital) by shooting several hundred rounds a minute for 11 minutes (the police estimate of firing duration) into a crowd of 22,000 is pure lunacy and this article also makes the ahistorical claim that such mass murders are orchestrated to promote passing gun laws, when the historical record shows the opposite: that they promote gun sales.

          So if it is a conspiracy, the most likely perp is the gun industry itself along with its paid propagandists such as the NRA.

          • Dale Ruff says:

            “Gun sales slumped after Donald Trump was elected president, but that could change after Sunday’s massacre in Las Vegas, the deadliest in modern U.S. history.
            It wouldn’t be the first time that gun sales have jumped in the wake of a mass shooting.
            Handgun sales spiked by 62% in December 2015, following the San Bernardino shootings that killed 14 and the November 2015 terror attacks in Paris, according to Rommel Dionisio, managing director at Aegis Capital and an expert on the gun industry.
            And sales were up for several months after the June 2016 attack on the Pulse nightclub in Orlando that claimed 49 lives, climbing about 20% in June, July and August 2016.”

            Forbes reports that major gun makers stocks rose 3-4% after the Vegas shooting, giving the bogus reason that people were expected to increase purchases in anticipation of tighter gun laws. This reason has always been given for the sales, but the tighter gun laws ‘anticipated” never come.

            The real reason the stocks rise is that investors know that after each mass murder, gun sales rise, as the NRA puts out the propaganda, intended to boost sales, that the government is about to ban guns so you better buy them while you can. With 74% of NRA members supporting universal background checks, how long will it be before the media stops lying about why gun industry stocks rise after mass murders and tell the truth: people are responding to propaganda that counts on them being both ignorant and paranoid.

            • arcadia11 says:

              speaking of the nra –

              it is a u.n. ngo. imagine that.

            • Theodore says:

              i would like to see a link to that.

              also, the story i heard about the NRA is that there are now so many individual citizens donating to it, that that keeps the NRA Executives — and, the BigCorps that also donate to it — from compromising core principles when negotiating with Dem/RHINO congress critters.

            • doncline says:

              What’s wrong with the NRA being a U.N. NGO? The term means “Non-Government-Organization,” and allows the NRA to keep track of what the UN is up to and, while not voting, enables them to bring influence to bear in favor of our right to keep and bear arms.

      • mortimer snerd says:

        An AR-15 MANUFACTURED to function fully automatic is incapable of cycling at 800 cycles per minute. 600 is 10 rounds per second is top of the top, and that’s in a perfect world. Try that and you will probably jam up in the first 20 rounds with an AR. Not really “auto friendly”…..So…..Not gonna happen. And they are talking about bump-stocks…..forget about it.

      • Scott says:

        As explained by Diane Feinstein, a well known gun expert. Kek.

        Be glad this moron didn’t know shit about guns. 10 minutes and only 60 kills? Because he was doing spray and pray. Watched too many Rambo movies.

      • Eliza Ayres says:

        The alleged shooter, who was conveniently killed by the police, was not known by friends to be “into” guns. Questions remain whatever your particular theory or knowledge. People are just exploring the fact the event was a false flag as many of these shootings have been in the past. And yes, our country is not free. It’s run by a fascist secret gov’t, unelected and unaccountable to the people.

        • doncline says:

          He WAS a “gun guy.” He’s been buying guns for ten years, had a “gun room” in his home, and a refrigerator-sized gunsafe in his garage.

          • Rachel says:

            There should be some record of any ranges he’s been practicing in. But of course in Nevada, he could have just gone out in the desert and been practicing for 10 yrs. and no one would know if he didn’t tell anyone.

          • Eliza Ayres says:

            http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/10/04/las-vegas-shooting/

            Apparently you accept the mass stream media and the “official” story of this incident. Paul Craig Roberts and other people question that same story. Our collective question should be: “Who benefits from this?” Not the American people, I say. Can even a military-trained individual with a collection of guns wound and kill 573 people from a distance of 4 (four) football fields? It has never been done before. Have you personally checked into this suspect’s life? Do you have to be right? What really happened? Only an honest… a condition that doesn’t describe most authorities right now in the U.S…. individual with forensic training can really determine what the real story is before jumping to all kinds of unsupported conclusions or blindly accepting a very questionable “official” story.

            • Dale Ruff says:

              The beneficiaries are the gun makers who see sales skyrocket and stock prices rise. By this logic it is the gun makers and their lobby (NRA) who perpetrated this attack, as well as all the others.

              BTW, PCR has gone off the rails.

              Shooting thousand of rounds into a football sized field of 22,000 caused 58 deaths and 120 gunshot wounds, according to the hospital. A ten year old could shoot a target that large and do better!

            • doncline says:

              And your point is? Would you like to vilify the automobile manufacturers whose products kill thousands of people every year on the theory that jihadists who drive vehicles into crowds of pedestrians are being funded by the manufacturers? It is not wackos shooting up sporting events or other “No Guns Allowed” environments that drive up gun sales; it is the threat of wild-eyed wackos in the Democratic Party demanding more restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms that drives up gun sales. We have the right to keep and bear arms and we have the right to travel in the commonly-accept mode of travel of the day, and the misuse of these and other rights by screwballs of any stripe have no bearing on that fact and WILL NOT deprive us of these rights.

        • Noname says:

          Of course he was a gun guy, genius.. he has an entire room dedicated to gun in this mesquite 2 bedroom home, he’s been collecting and playing with guns for YEARS, even DECADES

      • George Jackson says:

        There is no way physically possible that 1 person could shoot 400-800 rounds per minute when you figure in mag changes and re-sighing in. Also all of the people that were reported injured weren’t just from bullet wounds. That number is exaggerated.

        • David Crowe says:

          If you throw a flash bang grenade into a crowded theater and the grenade itself harms nobody but the panicked stampede injures and kills people…you’re still directly responsible. And why do you care so much about moving the blame from Paddock’s shoulders? […]

          • doncline says:

            And some adam henry racists just have to play the race card, don’t they?

            • Rachel says:

              Who played the race card? This is about whether it was one shooter or two. Some eye witness in the crowd said there was someone in the crowd shooting too b/c the lady standing next to her got shot in the stomach while they were standing with their shoulder to the Mandalay. Bullets can’t make a left turn as far as I know!

      • Correction: the hospital reported 500 injured but of these, only 120 had gunshot wound (plus the 58 killed by gunshot). With several thousand shots and 168 hit, that seems not only possible but inevitable given 22,000 in a crowd.

        For What It’s Worth
        Buffalo Springfield

        There’s something happening here
        What it is ain’t exactly clear
        There’s a man with a gun over there
        Telling me I got to beware
        I think it’s time we stop, children, what’s that sound
        Everybody look what’s going down
        There’s battle lines being drawn
        Nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong
        Young people speaking their minds
        Getting so much resistance from behind
        It’s time we stop, hey, what’s that sound
        Everybody look what’s going down
        What a field-day for the heat
        A thousand people in the street…..

        Paranoia strikes deep
        Into your life it will creep
        It starts when you’re always afraid
        You step out of line, the man come and take you away
        We better stop, hey, what’s that sound
        Everybody look what’s going down
        Stop, hey, what’s that sound
        Everybody look what’s going down
        Stop, now, what’s that sound
        Everybody look what’s going down
        Stop, children, what’s that sound
        Everybody look what’s going down

        This song was about protesters and police reaction but the underlying theme of paranoia feeding overreaching conspiracy theories (which poison the well of legitimate inquiries into legitimate conspiracies) rings true for the absurd claims being made by the paranoid element, positing doens of assumptions. Apply Occams’ razor: the explanation the fewest assumptions (ie leaps of faith) is most likely the best.

        In states like Arizona, where the shooter bought his ammo(thousands shot/ 1600 in the car), there are no laws to limit amount bought, nor records or background checks (likewise in Nevada, but h e bought ammo at Phoenix gunshow). There is no rational reason for thousand of round so why is it legal, since the only possible use is a mass murder.

        Guns don’t kill people; bullets do, so why aren’t they regulated as to kind and quantity based on reasonable use for legal purposes? The NRA is now supporting making bump stocks legal but this is a substitute for doing something about the ammunition outrage. 23 semi-automatics loaded with large capacity magazines, would still allow over a thousand shots before the police arrived, a hour after the shots rang out.

        We need rational limits on ammo……

        • Bimmerstuff says:

          You obviously aren’t a shooter. It’s not terribly unusual to expend 300 to 500 rounds in a casual Saturday outing in the desert. I do not now, nor have I ever considered murdering anyone whatsoever. I therefore take exception to your statement that the ONLY possible use for large quantities of ammunition is mass murder. I buy ammo in large quantities so as to enjoy the bulk discount. For the same reason I reload some calibers because of the significant savings over the cost of manufactured ammo. I remember going out shooting with a friend a couple of years ago, and we fired over 1500 rounds of.22 long rifle ammo. In less than five hours. Please reconsider your overly dogmatic assumptions about ammunition and the literally hundreds and hundreds of millions of rounds fired annually in this country that injure not a single living thing.

    • Jim Garrison says:

      shooting from 1000+ yards away would into a packed crowd of 25-30k people would mean a lot of people were injured from ricochet. 1 bullet, multiple hits before stopping… […]

    • Mark says:

      Doesn’t this analysis need to be revised as it has now been shown that he was firing for 10 minutes? Also, many of the injured were not injured by rounds, but from being trampelled. So…. there you go.

  2. Ron Jeka says:

    It might come out that several hundred of wounded were injured during scattering though if one has viewed some of the eye witnesses one who said it was 20 seconds of fire and another who said his friend was shot 3 times in chest (he laughs) and says “he’ll be good” while constantly looking aside like reading from script and an actor told me he can see these are crisis actors without a doubt in his mind. Something is fishy along with reports and video of the 4th and 10th floor(s) alleged shots).

    • Nobodys Fool says:

      I greatly sympathize with any/all of the innocent people who were at this event who were terrified into thinking a mass shooting was occurring (whether it was or not). I agree that eventually we are probably going to learn that many/most of the injuries were caused by trampling. Numerous videos taken from down in the “pit” area – where the gunfire appeared to be focusing – don’t actually show anyone who appears to have been shot. Initially I just assumed this was due to online censorship of graphic content, but is that really why? Many witnesses who were in that area said there were no bullets hitting the ground – people can be heard saying “they’re blanks” because no one was actually getting shot. Why wasn’t any of the major news coming from hospitals? I heard news ABOUT the hospitals but typically in some kind of mass casualty event there are usually press-conferences coming from the hospitals themselves – perhaps I just missed those this time but I didn’t see a single comment from any medical personnel talking about the injuries. Overall I have to admit I have yet to see a single report by a single expert or witness that makes me convinced “beyond a shadow of doubt” that the entire incident wasn’t just sound-effects followed by mass hysteria.

      • Nate says:

        I have a friend whose father was shot in the leg and a friend whose friend’s sister was shot in the head. Not just sound affects.

      • Jim Garrison says:

        I’ve seen phone vids of rounds bouncing off the ground along side of spectators while others were fleeing the event

      • Nobodys Fool says:

        Just to update my previous comment, I have since seen one rather graphic video of the field with obviously dead and dying victims, that were clearly bleeding heavily (I.e. appeared to have been shot rather than just trampled) and I was quite convinced from the video that they were real and weren’t “crisis actors.” I still think we are being presented with a fabricated story of what really went down (now Jon’s got video of another simultaneous shooting at another hotel – there goes the “lone wolf” theory), and it’s sad that due to previous incidents I actually had to see with my own eyes some kind of “proof” that this whole thing wasn’t a fabrication, but that’s the reality we are living in. I don’t apologize for questioning the facts, unlike so many who just believe everything they are told. But I do sincerely apologize to any legitimate victims of this attack who might have been offended by my skepticism. For any others like myself who need some kind of personal proof that real people were really shot, here is the video that convinced me:

        https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=63b_1507062726

        I imagine it will be removed from the internet soon because it is extremely graphic. (I realize it’s somewhat a violation of the victims “privacy” to view them in these awful moments but at the same time all of us who are affected by this story are now victims of it to some extent, we are all traumatized by it now, and we do have a right to know, to some extent, what really happened vs. whether we are being lied to). Peace, love, and prayers to all (all except the fuckers who did this)

        • Theodore says:

          OK, i may be going a little crazy, but three things about this video, you referenced, jumped out at me: (ref: https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=63b_1507062726)

          (1) i thought real blood — leaking out of a person — was suppose to be much darker in color than the blood shown in the video. Especially at the 25 second mark.

          (2) the various ‘loved ones’ (who are not nurse nor EMT trained) shown hovering over the various ‘victims’ are not sobbing nor shrieking in a hysterical fashion, and, they seem to be talking calmly — answering the filmer’s questions.

          (3) The filmer who is talking, his voice and some of his comments seem off — i am not able to explain. One example: “…I see no entry wound, I see no exit wound. I don’t know how to treat…”

          Maybe there was both some Real and some staged-Fake going on at the concert event to keep us arm-chair citizens guessing.

          also, this comment from a “FredPenner”…

          https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2017/10/04/multiple-shooters-in-vegas-the-standard-progression-in-staged-attacks/#comment-262657

          • Ron Jeka says:

            I agree Theodore seemed staged as guy was going to each and no wounds shown and then filmer says “i’m just an innocnet bystander” Odd and nothing that proves anything by that jerky cell phone video or what he captured.

          • arcadia11 says:

            there must be thousands of such videos by now that they can pull from the file and use wherever
            they need it. who knows where/when the video you viewed was shot.

            my sister, who volunteers at cedars-sinai in l.a., participated in the making of such a video (they called it a training video). the actors were told to make it as real as possible. the pretend event was a world-wide viral epidemic and the victims were told what symptoms to demonstrate. they even had a helicopter on the roof of the hospital. it was a big production. it will no doubt be used when they announce such a fake event. they are well-stocked.

            in the age of deception…

        • stephen sivonda says:

          Nobody’s Fool, I Understand this, I’m not saying there was no deaths and injuries’m not impressed by that video on the link you supplied. It looks phony to me….and the handling of the I-phone is …well let’s say poor. or inept. Those that were so called shot or dead and the touching of them by the cameraman shows or proves nothing . That there were casualties is highly probable….but the truth seems to be lost in “preferred narrative” rather than transparency and truth.

        • Rachel says:

          Knowing how nefarious our CIA and FBI Deep Staters are and how dishonest the MSM is, it’s no wonder people find the “official story” almost impossible to believe. No one trusts the govt or the media anymore….with good reason. They have only themselves to blame.

    • Dale Ruff says:

      So there were 22,000 crisis actors?

      • Rachel says:

        Most people know it was a real event. We just don’t buy the “can’t find a motive” b.s. they’re trying to sell us.

    • mortimer snerd says:

      600 rounds with bump-stocks at this distance? I guarantee the shooter(s) had NO 3 round shot groupings inside a chest size area….this is laughable.

  3. Jack Parsons says:

    Muzzle flashes on the 4th floor: https://youtu.be /0Fp3xgmQgiA

    • Jim Garrison says:

      they were strobe lights you can see the same lights coming from the same location hours before the shooting started

      • Dave says:

        And hours afterwards! I saw it during TV coverage later that morning. The reporters were even commenting on it, wondering what it was… Dave

      • Noname says:

        Yep.. and [certain individuals] still claim there was a 4th floor shooter.. who was shooting magic bullets through windows that cannot be removed and that didn’t break.

  4. TBBH says:

    He had 23 guns, but couldn’t use a glass cutter and failed to tape up the smoke detectors? Doesn’t make a bit of sense.

    There are also two videos of muzzle flashes from the 4th or fifth floor.

    • Laura says:

      Those aren’t muzzle flashes in the 4th floor… those same flashes are seen in a live video interview on Fox News several hours later. It’s likely a reflection from a flashing traffic light or a party light inside the room.

      • Nobodys Fool says:

        I have seen multiple videos from multiple perspectives and the flashing lights on the 4th-ish floor clearly do stop when the gunfire noise stops and restart when the gunfire noise starts back up again. It appears to be gunfire, not a rave party or traffic light reflection.

        • Terry Barker says:

          No broken windows anywhere but the 32 nd. floor , a second shooter would have to be outside if anywhere .

          • Tanner says:

            Stop being reasonable. If there was a shooter on the 4th floor then it would be obvious as the window would be broken.

            [..]

            To start with the shooter fired for 9-10 minutes.

            “…a potential MAXIMUM of only 360 rounds could be fired at full auto burst with NO magazine changes in the approximate four minutes or 240 seconds of the shooting!”

            Utter nonsense. A full auto fire weapon can shoot over 10 rounds per second. While this quote claims slightly over 1 round per second there is ZERO basis for that claim. Here is what Wikipedia’s REFERENCED sources state:

            Rate of fire 12–15 rounds/min sustained 45–60 rounds/min semi-automatic 700–950 rounds/min cyclic

            When an author gets such a BASIC fact so wrong, you can feel free to completely ignore everything else he says.

            The bump-stock attachment on a semi-auto AR-15 can fire 90 rounds in a 10 second burst. The shooter had high capacity magazines and he didn’t have to do much reloading because he had multiple weapons, with bump stocks, all loaded and ready to fire.

            He fired over 2000 rounds in 9-10 minutes into a dense crowd at high angles which made for no cover. The AR-15 doesn’t have to be accurate when fired into a crowd and you don’t need to be in good physical shape to shoot an AR15 and you don’t need to be a marksman to mow down people in a crowd. There is zero evidence that he didn’t practice with his guns and substantial evidence that he did, including the finding of tanerite in his home which is used to practice long distance shooting.

            […]

            • mark says:

              You are the first one I’ve seen Tanner that has pointed out this lack of knowledge of rate of fire in these reports. A gun with a 600 round /min rate of fire would require a large magazine

            • Jim says:

              So you’re saying he had lots of 600 round magazines…

      • Matilda says:

        Those flashes are also seen in video shot during the concert before the shooting started. Those flashes are not muzzle flashes

    • Tom says:

      Reading this piece, my wife and I realized two things:
      !.The concert was on a grass venue, so ricochet hits would have been few to zero. Bullets that struck the ground would have been out of play.
      2. Any decent investigator can trace the location of the firing from hits in the dirt — bullets will leave a track as they penetrate, and there’s a big difference between 4th floor and 32nd floor angles. This concert lawn will now be full of bullets, and they can all be found by anyone with a metal detector.

      Will we see this meticulous investigation? If not, we’re seeing a cover-up.

      • Theodore says:

        grass. not AstroTurf over asphalt? just asking.

      • Dawn says:

        It was fake grass..not real would that make a difference to what you are saying?

      • Dale Ruff says:

        There was a crowd of 22,000 huddled together: how many shots would not hit human flesh. the hospital reported that of the wounded, 120 had gun shot wounds (and 59 were killed). The shooter shot into a solid mass of human flesh. There will be some bullets in the grass, of course, and they will be examined, no doubt.

    • Dale Ruff says:

      Yeah, it sounds like “they’ want us to think he wasn’t rational!

    • Jim Garrison says:

      they are strobe lights…seen from video shot by concert goers hours before the shooting coming from the same spot on the 4th floor

  5. Leon says:

    Solition: One bullet can pierce more than one person. Never the less, if more than one shooter, then who was the real target(s) and the remainin victims were collateral damage. Retrieve the slugs from the prominent victims and compare the ballistic identities with the remaining slugs. Track the chain of custody of the evidence to make sure the actual slugs used are not swapped out with counterfeit slugs. This is an interesting conspiracy theory.

    • Tom says:

      The “Magic Bullet” that supposedly killed JFK was found *under* his body on the hospital gurney after an FBI agent was seen lurking nearby. The bullet was in pristine condition, obviously fired into a barrel of water, the standard practice for retrieving a sample for a ballistics investigation. This is a game we know that they play, and we should be watching for it in Vegas.

  6. flyinggabriel says:

    So why won’t law-enforcement take notice?

    Because jet fuel can melt steel beams.

    After that nothing is miraculous.

    • scot says:

      don’t forget the magic bullets as well to go with the jet fuel…classic

    • mindym66 says:

      In-fucking-Deed…

    • Paul says:

      LOL – where did you get that ‘jet fuel can melt steel beams’ from? LOL

      • flyinggabriel says:

        He read my comment at a more leisurely pace – especially the last sentence.
        Maybe also the first reply to it from scot.
        Those are all the hints I’m giving for now.

    • Steve says:

      I work in the metallurgic field jet fuel does not have to melt steel. Steel loses most of its structural strength well below the melting point.

      • doncline says:

        If you work in the metallurgical field then you also know that in the absence of very careful controls (such as that imposed by microprocessor-controlled demolition) steel will not soften everywhere to the same degree at the same time, and that’s why the engineering firms who design controlled demolition of buildings make the big bucks: Without controlled demolition, demolition causes buildings to fall over, not come down in their own footprint. Oh, and do I have to point out that in the absence of being hit by an airplane, there was no reason — other than controlled demolition — for Building 7 to come down in its own footprint either.

  7. Ron Jeka says:

    Expect the C-word will be used as Mainstream prefers you follow their narratives. Sadly some of the best info was from people via yt though seems the PTB found ways to shut them down. Ntrepid was group that had(hae) false trollers and you can moderate though Peekay Truth (Peter) had that and Peekay Boston and 22 only Boston remains he and David Weiss did yeomans work much like you have done. Episode 232 CTM caravan to midnight is where I first saw and heard him. He exposed several things and events even in his hometown of Melbourne Aus though was shut down. He showed along with others the CGI after people supposedly hit by truck were like weebles and that was after the Nice and Munich events which one reporter from Munich was at both events a Richard J. After being at Nice his daughter is then on CNN witnessing Munich shooting later exosed with pictures with HC. Coincidence and Peekay also exposed Pulse staging areas and fake injured people being carried back towards club then after they thought camera was off they put person down (tourniquet) and are seen laughing and dancing right across from club. Thing there did not add up like timelines as Judge Napolitano pointed out when it started. The mainstream has set agendas etalia and will do their best to marginalize anyone who thinks outside their boxes mirroring official stories.N-group above has trollers that besides commenting to diminish have also hacked and changed info to help further discredit posters that would discredit the mainstream/official narratives. Thanks for your fine work Jon and May God Bless you and others who think for themselves and show how lame the MSM etc is and continues to spew their falseness. I knwo you stated nomorefakenews.com back in 2001 and I was glad to find someone like you as still too many only follow MSM though am hopeful as people are awaking slowly but surely despite efforts to shut truthseekers down and turn reality into fiction.

  8. marandarussell says:

    Definitely fishy. I wrote a blog post about this today too.

  9. Sunshine2 says:

    What happened to the woman who warned the concert goers that they were all gonna die? I read news in the last week that ISIS has been using social media to warn people to stay away from crowded areas. And with all the terror attacks ramping up in the last couple of years, why was this woman, after shouting that everyone was going to die, escorted out of the concert area and not taken into custody to be questioned? The police didn’t even get identification? No one knows who she is. I thought threats are taken seriously. I guess that only applies to airports or schools, not concerts… Think about that. Imagine that woman yelling her warnings in a school, college, or airport and how the situation would have been handled very differently.

    • flyinggabriel says:

      Yeah that’s a hell of a thing that. So many possible back stories, none of which we may ever know. It would help if a 3rd party could ID her. Apparently she was with a male and was heard to also say “they are all around us” or similar as I recall. As for her fate …

    • Laura says:

      ISIS doesn’t “warn” people to stay away from places… their intentions are to kill as many people as possible.

      • scot says:

        remember people were warned a week or more about 911, these people get off on that type of shit.

      • Sunshine2 says:

        Sorry. To be more clear I read, in the news, that ISIS was warning their own people on social media to stay away from crowds.

        • flyinggabriel says:

          There’s all sorts of possibilities. Somebody saw something they shouldn’t, overheard a conversation, was in the know but had a thawing of conscience, who can know now?
          The thing is … she had prior information from somewhere.

        • mindym66 says:

          So exactly which CIA Agents were they warning?

  10. Andy Boothman says:

    I have no experience with guns but I also imagine that many of the people became injured as they tried to escape the scene, perhaps lots of broken bones, cuts and scratches and maybe crush injuries etc as they rtried to get away. So the 573 total ‘killed and wounded’ could be say 100 injured with bullets and 473 injured through non-bullet causes. I also imagine you wouldn’t need to be a brilliant shot to spray bullets in the general direction of a big crowd of people 300-400 yards away and pretty much guarantee hitting many many people.You’d need to speak with a firearms person to ask how much damage a bullet does that far away, I habve no idea. Having said all that the initial reporting of ‘lone shooter’ etc makes me feel it’s likely a false flag because they’ve jumped straight to that narrative with no room for anybody to talk of a second, third or fourth person being involved. The video of muzzle flashes from a 4-5th floor at the hotel will probably also soon disappear from the net. So although I dont think the analaysis of ‘573 people injured or killed in 240 seconds’ is totally relevant I do suspect this’ll be another one concluded very quickly by the authorities whereas he reality will have to be dug out by later people.

    • Laura says:

      Those flashes on the 4th floor aren’t from a gun. This has been debunked. There’s a clip of a reporter from Fox News speaking to the camera several hours after the incident and behind him you can see the flashing in the window is still going on. It could be a reflection from a blinking traffic light or a party light inside that room.

      • Tom says:

        As I said in a comment above, the lawn at the concert venue will now have many bullets embedded in the dirt, each one with a distinctive track an investigator can expose. Big difference between 4th floor and 32nd floor tracks, easy to prove or disprove where bullets came from. No investigation of this with proofs made public indicates a cover-up.

  11. Theodore says:

    the case is building that Paddock was the patsy, cutout.

    “1. It was dark and no matter how well lit, there are many shadows to hide in.”

    ^^^ this quote has got me thinking,… the REAL shooters who did the shooting (not Paddock) — say, there were two or three of them — i would speculate they could have been using NIGHT VISION GOGGLES. And, i would speculate they were well-trained. And then, if well-trained means ‘military’ trained, and if these two or three were ‘rational’ (and not MK ULTRA wind-up toys), then how could these two or three become so ‘corrupt’ to do this (for Soros)? Would they be assassinated if they did not carry out their mission? What are the ‘rules’ (consequences) for ‘rational actors’ who get ‘cold feet’ or simply fail (get caught) during a ‘rogue (illegal) operation’?

    ^^^ and now this speculation has got me thinking… in this day-and-age, could a couple of autonomous (pre-programmed with environment sensors), or, remote-controlled robots have done this? Each robot with a mechanically-fed machine gun on it (self feeding itself)? When I say ‘this day-and-age’, in terms of military tech, could we really currently be in the year 2067 and NOT in the year 2017?

    robot with machine gun
    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=robot+with+machine+gun

    • TBBH says:

      Israelis have robotic machine guns on their wall.

    • flyinggabriel says:

      JFK; Some investigators number 8 assassins – each with back-up for the Dallas, TX op. They all found it in their hearts to engage in cold-blooded murder. Also, right next to an international airport adds options. International men of mystery – roof dancers – flying from closed airports. We’ve had them in this country for years. They do have a rationale, but that’s another story.
      Most orchestrated mass killings or false flags as they get called now, are sloppy and full of anomolies but they know all they need to do is control the post-event narrative and the evidence. They don’t care if some of us know it’s bullshit. In fact the similarities in a tactical sense are strikingly similar to ’63.

  12. djblue1654 says:

    The assumption that all deaths and/or injuries were caused by the shooter(s) leads to faulty calculations. One must first inquire as to how many were from shooting and how many from panic and/or stampede. There have been severe injuries and even deaths caused by panic stampedes alone with NO shooter at other events.

  13. The Outlaw says:

    After the shooting started and the lights went down, musicians fled—-why did someone on the crew feel it necessary to turn on a large and bright light to illuminate the entire crowd? A white light almost the length off the stage itself aimed at the crowd? You turn the lights off–not a huge band of bright lights ON THE CROWD!!!! This stinks. Somethings up. Someone or many people were working on the crew with the shooters.

    • Will says:

      Actually the entire production industry has been talking about this. The Plan from the Event Safety Alliance says to cut the sound and illuminate so people can see the exits.

      • The Outlaw says:

        Exit signs lit (common practice) but don’t illuminate the “targets” with an enormous bright, white light with an active shooter “acting”. Thats a criminal act and whoever did that is guilty of complicity to commit murder–if indeed someone did die. The “Event” Safety Alliance? Statist name from the sound of it. Event, huh—-who’s working with whom. Anyway, it was an open area–not an enclosed auditorium. This was well thought out and obviously planned. 58 killed? Should have been thousands–22,000 in the crowd is what we’re told. At least 3 automatic weapons for several minutes. 72 minutes to find the shooter? Please.

        I still haven’t seen videos of strewn bodies anywhere. This whole thing stinks to high Heaven. Sandy Hook II (hoax) or did they actually kill people this time. I pray they didn’t but I believe some were killed. I’ll bet my bottom $$ Bloomberg is involved or will become involved real quick like. His “Mayors for gun control” are a band of convicted criminals mostly who are being forced to commit treason against the Constitutional Republic. I’ve seen their rap sheets. Mostly convicts who were mayors at one time.

        Shall Not Be Infringed——–Do Bolsheviks even read english or must it be in Yiddish, Mr. Bloomberg?

        God Bless anyone harmed. You shall see justice done.

        • The Outlaw says:

          FBI-anan had a warning weeks ago about Vegas. Same scenario. Target.
          https://imgur.com/uKmDzAb

        • Dawn L. Hernandez says:

          He’s right about illuminating the crowd for “safer” exit. I’ve worked event security many times, and lighting is very important. The guy/gal operating the lights wouldn’t necessarily know the right way to react in a live-fire situation–he/she will simply go on existing training. This shooting doesn’t follow the existing scenarios normally used, nor does the perpetrator fall into the typical mass-murderer categories. I wouldn’t expect a lighting person to know the right way to react in this type of situation–cause none of us have been IN a situation like this.

          This doesn’t preclude a false-flag, IMHO, though. I’m not happy with the way the exits and crowd control was set up–if I were event security, that’s not the way I was trained to do it. However, not being familiar with the Strip and the venue, can’t really make a proper judgement. I do agree that many, many of the injuries are likely due to panic and stampede.

  14. David Crowe says:

    One bullet can produce many pieces of shrapnel. And as another poster commented, people can get injured just in the panic of the stampede out of the area.

  15. Jana D. says:

    We need to raise a stink (or expose the stink in this incident). This one is not going away. This is far more out there with good facts like this article presents than Sandy Hook is. The deaths are clearly real and affect families from all over. This ain’t goin’ away. Let’s arm up (in a figurative sense) for the fight. This one can be won.

  16. Kevin says:

    “Remember, there were 573 killed and wounded according to late statistics.”??? So you base a large part of your analysis on a flawed statement? And ignore the fact that many of the injured were not shot, but suffered broken bones, etc. from the stampede. Way to totally discredit your entire premise just be being sloppy.

  17. Jake says:

    Umm. Injuries also contributed by being trampled on by people panicking and running for cover

    • thomaspoa says:

      It was an open-air event. The “walls” were about five feet tall. My grandmother could have made it out of there without getting “trampled.” http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/vegas-shooting5-gty-ml-171002_mn_4x3t_384.jpg

      • scot says:

        The concert area outside perimeter is surrounded by a 6-8 ft. chain link fence, to keep people out, although at that end of LVBLVD there is not much foot traffic on that side ( east ) of street. I live in LV and know there area well. I know of only 2 ways into venue there may be more I my self have never been inside to see anything going on there be it a concert or the TV show American Ninja Warrior. I know one exit is on LVBLVD so most people are not going that way because you are running into shooters, you would have to exit toward the airport side (east ) of venue, thus making you a target for a lot longer.

        • Terri says:

          Scot, what have you found out about the wounded at the hospital and other things? We need local people to confirm what is true or not.

  18. Laura says:

    Your wrong in assuming that 500+ people had gunshot wounds. It’s already been reported several times that hundreds of people were in the hospital from secondary injuries, i.e. they were trampled, broken bones from falls, cuts, shrapnel injuries and cardiac arrest, etc.

  19. starviego says:

    Have seen no video/pics of masses of dead and wounded piled up at the scene. No video/pics of large pools of blood, no video/pics of ambulances rushing to and fro. Was it faked, at least to some extent? I’m not saying that, but it’s weird.

    • Terri says:

      The cops shut the scene down no one was allowed in once people initially helped others and got out. there are interviews of various people who treated and helped victims, some footage of the actual area where people were shot, also a lot of police and other emergency vehicles flashing lights around, since it was dark, not many details were seen. They kept everyone in lock down into the early morning hours, shut down the roads and the airport. there are a few police scanner videos on you tube of the event where you can listen to what took place. Alex Jones and others also have footage on you tube.

      Here is another interesting article with some pics.
      http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index2399.htm

      I would call it false flag, but that doesn’t mean people were not wounded. The bottom line is to not allow this to violate our inherent rights and make ourselves victims to the kommies who want to destroy our country and make everyone a prisoner.
      We may never know what happened, we just have to pray and do our best to contribute in a positive manner in the world to help prevent further destruction.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4925816/Polish-bishops-urge-country-s-Catholics-pray-nation.html

      Polish bishops urge the country’s Catholics to pray along the nation’s 2,000-mile border to mark Christians ‘saving Europe from Islamisation
      on October 7.

      The Rosary Prayer Around Poland is an annual event where Catholics pray
      Began after Catholic victory over Muslim Ottomans in the Battle of Lepanto
      Prayer’s organisers say the battle in 1571 ‘saved Europe from Islamisation

      Everyone should participate in their own way, based on their own beliefs, to create a more peaceful, prosperous, happy world and commit to doing their part to make this so.

  20. Craig says:

    hmmmm all 500 were not by gunshot many were trampled or struck by car while fleeing. […]

  21. truthertoother says:

    The rate of fire of the M240, M240E1, and M240C can be controlled by three different gas regulator settings; The first setting allows the weapon to have a fire rate of 650–750 rounds per minute. The second setting allows the weapon to have a fire rate of 750–850 rounds per minute.

    700 rounds X 4min = 2800 rounds x 2 guns = 5600 rounds from and m240

    […]

    • scot says:

      sounds right , don’t forget M249 because I have heard over lapping gun fire from 2 or more weapons, may also be an MK48.

  22. grannygoodfood says:

    The end game: Chertoff et al selling bodyscanners to hotels, by federal mandate, according to Anonymous. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209436676625243&set=a.1433762135455.2057739.1574974386&type=3&theater

  23. whyser says:

    Jon Rappoport, can you verify the rate of fire? Listening to the videos, it sounds a LOT more rapid than 1.5 bullets per second (which is 360 bullets in 240 seconds). Something is not right with Jeff Rense’s analysis.

    • Aj says:

      Jeffs annalysis doesnt take into account echo off surrrounding buildings!

    • Tanner says:

      It was not only a lot more than 1.5 bullets per second, his assertion that the rate of fire from a full auto is only 90 rounds per minute is nonsense. He’s off by a factor of 10. SImple fact to check and he didn’t check it. […]

  24. Tom says:

    The truth will come out not from number of rounds fired, numbers of killed or wounded, or from cyclic rates of different weapons. The proof is calibers of bullets recovered from bodies and embedded in the lawn, and ballistics analysis that matches those bullets to the weapons in the room, with microphotography made public to independent experts. Anything less is a cover-up. No need to hide anything here, there will be no trial.

    • mindym66 says:

      Neither will there be any investigation. It was already an open and shut case by 5:30 a.m. the morning of. Lone shooter. White male. No motive. An unexpectedly unusual cache of automatic (this time) weapons in his hotel room/home/mother’s basement. Same as usual. Nothing to see here. On to the next one.

  25. Dave says:

    Not all injuries were from being shot. Also in a dense packed crowd a .308 caliber bullet or even a .223 would go through more than one person.

  26. Ha'ashkee Ndaa'Ke'O'N'dee says:

    Stephen “Lee Harvey” Paddock was executed in the room on the 32nd floor such that the blood and brain splatter pattern on the walls and ceiling would be authentic for forensics. Then the Hispanic woman and her male security escort went into the crowd and shouted “You’re all going to [effing] die.” The man with the woman was there to control the crowd so that the woman would not be physically injured or arrested by the police. The man would have used controlling statements such as Lady, we’re trying to listen to the music.” “Calm down.” “Why don’t you just leave?” etc. The shooters waited until the woman and man had driven out of town which was about 45 minutes. Then they opened fire. “Lee” Paddock would not be around to tell the press he was a patsy, even if he figured it out.

  27. Just as we were to have believed that Middle Eastern men who supposedly “learned” to fly Cessna’s, flew commercial jets into the WTC buildings on 9/11, we are to also believe someone with no gun experience could carry off this precise an operation. Yes, believe the news readers… Yes, believe what they show you… Never mind there was no blood shown. But above all, do not listen to your gut, nor the cognitive dissonance that is so beyond obvious!

    • mindym66 says:

      They won’t. People are absolutely blinded by their loyalty to the Cabal of Infinite Evil running shit around here. Not gonna wake up no matter what. Gonna keep calling me and you “insane” and “F-ked up”. Gonna be the first to ask us WTF is happening when IT gets too close to home. I am completely over them. Nevertheless, they still will not believe it when it’s in front of their face right before the bullet hits the bone.

      • doncline says:

        Occam’s Razor is our friend: “Among competing theories, the one that requires the fewest unsupported assumptions is usually the correct one.” FYI, I monitor police and fire frequencies all the time and I have never heard a really serious call dispatched in which the officers received accurate information during the response or immediately upon arriving at the scene. They thought there were two shooters because of echoes and because two windows were broken out.

        All this speculation is absolutely useless, and because of it no one will ever believe what the forensic evidence actually shows when it becomes available. You will have to pin your beliefs on one or two fundamental facts. Such as: “Regardless of what anyone says or any other claims are made, collapsing skyscrapers don’t come down in their own footprint without microprocessor controlled timed demolition. Thus 9/11 was a false flag. It might not be our government’s false flag, but it was a false flag: Those aircraft and burning fuel did not bring down those buildings. Period. Fact.” […]

        The same thesis applies to the LV massacre. No evidence of any other shooter. No evidence of cover up. […]

      • flyinggabriel says:

        It’s a common theme for any brave enough to shine a light into the future. From the Vishnu Purana and Christ, through Nostradamus to Huxley and Orwell, wilful mass ignorance becomes epidemic.
        I’ve just about had enough of picking the bones out of their orchestrated massacres now. Who needs the recipe to know what apple pie smells like when it’s served up every week? 1 – 2 hours is enough to see the same old MO’s gaping holes and the agenda re cui bono. The occult symbolism here is fascinating though.

    • Tanner says:

      The 9/11 hijackers weren’t trained to fly Cessna’s, they took training to fly commercial jets.

      […]

      How much “gun experience” does someone need to pull a trigger on a gun pointed into a crowd? Not much.

      […]

  28. Nathan says:

    […] they are not gunfire and as seen in videos before and after the event are still going on there. […]

  29. Mr Boots says:

    As always Jon your words are clean filtered water in an otherwise very murky cesspool.

  30. Nathan says:

    oh no look more pretend gun fire flashing while the reporter is speaking

    https://www.youtube.com /watch?v=7RpvVwsodHE

    [..]

  31. tlc says:

    What is the possibility that a round would pierce several people?

    • Theodore says:

      just asking… what type of bullets were used?

      I thought “NATO rounds” (and the rounds used by the US Army in Vietnam) are supposed to wound and not go through. So as to tie up other soldiers tending to rescuing the wounded. A military tactic.

      and, also… IF ‘hollow point” rounds were used, then those rounds would NOT “go through” (by design), correct?

  32. daphneobrien1@bigpond.com says:

    This is so reminding me of our own Port Arthur massacre. Only Martin Bryant wasn’t killed. He just got NO trial (too distressful for the victims) and rots away in jail. Shoot to kill ratio off the charts and Bryant had an IQ of about 60. Also the gun they say he used was already banned, as machine guns are in the US.

    • Tanner says:

      The LV shooter didn’t use a machine gun.

      He used legal weapons, legally bought.

      Furthermore, you can legally buy a machine gun in the United States, they are not “banned”. They just can’t be manufactured any longer.

  33. Glenn “GIGGITY” Quagmire says:

    A lot of the injured were from being trampled.

  34. robobbob says:

    I didnt come up with this, but just LISTEN to some of the videos
    some one was firng 50 and 100 rnd sustained fire on a low cyclic rate
    NO WAY that was coming from an AR platform.
    An AR will dump a 30rnd mag in under 3seconds. even with a drum, the rate of fire would be to high
    and look at the room photos. thousands of shots fired, but only a hundred casings on the floor?
    SOMEBODY had a belt fed SUPPORT MACHINE GUN in another location.

  35. doncline says:

    He had ten rifles, Jon; he didn’t need to reload. And he didn’t need accuracy; he was shooting into a barrel packed to the gunnels with shoulder-to-shoulder fish. And muzzle rise is no big deal; I’ve held both a .223 and a .308 on target in full auto, and my 130-lb. wife has held a .45 Thompson down in full auto. Every time something nasty happens, someone — many someones — try to make a name for themselves by claiming “government cover-up” and/or “false flag.” Here’s a more intelligent way: Occam’s Razor is the investigator’s friend: “Among competing theories, the theory requiring the fewest unsupported assumptions is usually the correct one.” […]

    • Tanner says:

      Well stated. Jon clearly has no experience with AR15’s and has no clue even what the fire rate of a full auto is (or an ordinary AR15 fitted with a bump stock). He’s so far off with his rate of fire, not to mention the number of minutes the firing occurred over, that his resultant conclusion is fatally flawed.

      […]

  36. Snark Snark says:

    I’m sorry Jon, I have to totally disagree this time, and not because I believe our government on that much.

    An M16 (the fully automatic version of the AR15 potentially being demonized) has a cyclic rate of fire from 750-900 rounds a minute, you can find youtube videos of them emptying a 30 round clip in just over one second. A magazine change on an AR15 takes about 2 seconds, even sloppy rifles like the AK47 maybe 4 seconds. Four minutes of assault could have easily burned through a ridiculous amount of ammo.

    60 killed and 600 injured sounds about what I would expect for someone firing into the middle of a mass of people as thick as you can see, you cant miss at any decent range.

    The flashing light if you count the pulses doens’t seem to match the tempo of the firing, even taking into account the time lag from the distance, and DOES look like whats in the background of the Fox news video linked elsewhere – just a light. This doesn’t mean there isn’t a second shooter, just I don’t think that light is it. Weak evidence is not going to prove anything. There are better anomalies to investigate, and uncover, like stories of the building being mostly empty with no security and having shatter resistant glass that if broken should have instantly alerted security. Look there.

    Plenty of things don’t add up. What was the motive? Without SSRI’s people don’t usually just crack, least of all legitimate gun owners blowing away a bunch of good ol boy texans, I dont buy it. Too many convenient facts fit a desired narrative – “lone wolf”, “bump fire stock”, “dozens of legally purchased guns”. How do we know this person isn’t a patsy? Also that is a pretty serious range, the figures would sound right for some up close shooting, not some long distance spray and pray.

    Too premature to declare it for sure it’s a single guilty party.

    • Snark Snark says:

      Sorry self correction, I hit post before I finished assembling thoughts, was going to say emptying a _20_ round AR15 mag (the more commonly used size) is like just over a second on videos.

      I havent followed the nonsense brigade to see whether an AR is being blamed, or what else were hearing, i’m pretty sure it wont add up much anyways. The bigger question is what is Trump going to do? He once questioned 9/11, will he call this a questionable case needing more investigation because it doesn’t add up? Or will he shown he’s totally cast his lot in with the deep state by say backing some gun grab nonsense because he fears media reprisal if he doesn’t follow the narrative, just like what happened when he didn’t go along with the warplans early in the spring? I’d say were about to find out who we really have in the white house now.

      • Theodore says:

        “I’d say were about to find out who we really have in the white house now.”

        Roger that.

      • doncline says:

        If Trump is smart he will be President and will let the professionals do their job.

      • flyinggabriel says:

        Good point that. It should be enough to remove any doubt. Whether he’s been bent over or never been straight doesn’t matter really. Does he have the resources?

  37. Aj says:

    This is the worst so called expert examination of a situation I have ever heard. There is no way this person is an expert in weapons. Firstly the shooter has been confirmed to have had multiple weapons over 15 with him in the room. Secondly the report is 573 killed wounded or injured. Some were not wounded. Thirdly they confirmed the use of high velocity military ammunition. Your so called expert is also making an assumption that anyone wounded or killed was done so by a single bullet per wound or death. It is highly likely that one round wounded two or three people, especially given high velocity military rounds were used.

    Second shooter bullshit. There is no evidence what so ever of a second shooter. You must take into account echo from the gun shots off adjacent buildings as well none of which the expert is taking into account. Also how does he know the shooter wasnt trained!

    • D3F1ANT says:

      I don’t know…I’m not prone to conspiracy theories…but I saw a video of muzzle flash just a few floors up. I’m not sold…but it did seem pretty clear.

    • Bill in IL says:

      You post is utter nonsense and reveals you know less than nothing about the subject. Where did you come up with the term “high velocity military ammunition”? There is no such thing as “high velocity military ammunition”.

      There were eye witness accounts of multiple shooters, whether true or not we will never know.

      He assumes the shooter was not trained because he has no military record, his family said he was not in the military and was not into the shooting sports and there is no evidence to this point he took professional training anywhere.

  38. Biagio says:

    Not sure how many shooters there were, what we do have to take into account is that this was a packed event 20,000 in a small area. Shots into an area that populated don’t have to be accurate to cause a lot of carnage. ON that note the Taxi lady video she has sounds like two shooters, this could also be him using the two different window angles from the two different broken windows a ways apart from each other.

    • sqawk says:

      I guessing that most of the sixty killed by gun fire were dead in the first ‘few’ rounds before most of the others realized what was happening. So 60/20,000 might have been killed ‘immediately’ and easily with modified semi auto guns fired by one untrained nut. With a few initial 30rd magazines, he could have sprayed most of the victims whom were still together in clumps. The distribution of bullets will tell it all. But it seems someone wanted to “kill you all” and failed. Los Vegas has been on their map for weeks. Chicago was just a dry run in a friendly city and a distraction. This audience was targeted to blast off a civil war. It was a gun free zone, where even the police had to borrow guns from citizens. The leftists have the nerve to want to disarm “those” generally conservative people after all this build up violence prior to the shooting? They’ve been trolling for a civil war, with mounting violence, and increasing demands haven’t they? Can you imagine the rage if they’d managed to killed all 20,000 suspected conservatives? Somehow, with all his brains and money, and all that supposed intricacy in his plans why didn’t he manage to kill many more? If you kill too many monkeys, the rest of the monkeys will overcome their fear and kill you instead.

  39. D3F1ANT says:

    I’m open to there having been more than one shooter. I’ve seen the video of the muzzle flash on the lower floor. However, I find it hard to imagine the shooter NOT hitting someone with just about every shot. At a concert folks are packed like sardines. Opening fire with an (effectively) automatic rifle? They’d fall by the row. They’d all be pushing against each other trying to flee in different directions…falling down…piling up. Especially since there were no specific targets to aim for. Didn’t have to identify a specific person. Just hosed the crowd.

  40. Deb says:

    Reminds me of the Kennedy shooting…with the Grassy Knoll…

  41. Jon

    Given the Boston Bombing and Sandy Hook CONSPIRACIES (without a shadow of a doubt), was anyone injured and did anyone die would the primary logical line of investigation? I now note several compelling videos appearing proposing that this was CIA operation.

    Can we be sure there was a music festival? I wasn’t there, but there are rumours abound that the festival wasn’t promoted, no fliers, nothing. Sounds odd to me, given the strange, nay “unique” circumstances surrounding it (the most devastating American civil attack in known history). Who performed there? Anyone famous or just local “crud”?

    Didn’t Trump put that Jewish guy, pompous-somebody-or-other up at the CIA? It seemed like a dangerous move to me, given Israel’s “love” (weapon supply, etc.) of ISIS.

    Ah, but I guess it’s all in the name of showbiz, eh? 😉

    Best
    OT

  42. Bruce Hayden says:

    I had to scroll all the way down to tell JR he is full of shit? Really? John, you have sold out. Give your buddy, Jeff Rense a kiss. Watch Alex, he might kiss you back. You are all on the same side. Many of us are sucking that fact up. It is us who control the guillotine. Think about your allegiance.

  43. Albert Hoffman says:

    Since this whole thing stinks to high Heaven of political bullshit and affects both Republicans and Democrats across America. The only solution now is vote them all out or this shit will continue to happen.

  44. Kent S says:

    Jon seems to be saying the reported number of injuries couldn’t have happened by using his own logic. He says with no pauses the shooter could only have fired 360 rounds in 240 seconds. All the videos I’ve heard are playing at least 4 or 5 rounds per second. It clearly sounds like a single stream. Also, he doesn’t seem to mention the possibility of single bullets hitting more than one person. Unless the videos mislead, even on the 32nd floor of the hotel the shots were being fired at quite an angle, Also, this was a crowded concert. There was no place to hide. Jon says it was dark and people were hiding in shadows – but it seems these were shadows of other people! And the videos show quite a bit. Most photo and video I’ve seen (in general) doesn’t capture night as well as the human eye so if I can see all this, the shooter probably could too. It was shooting fish in a barrel. I know we’re not getting the full story or maybe even the honest story – I just don’t know WHOSE story is flawed!

  45. Horace says:

    So for your conspiracy theory to prove out, here is who has to keep quiet:1) The initial SWAT team that blew the door on the 32nd floor.Plus all the other law enforcement personnel that were in the room 2) The executives of the hotel who obviously had to help in setting up the operation because if there were multiple shooters in the hotel then other rooms are being used, the windows of those rooms were knocked out and quickly replaced so there would be no evidence of other windows knocked out to indicate multiple shooters. 3)No one in adjacent rooms to the other shooters heard anything, so either they were paid off to keep quiet or maybe they were offed to keep quiet but then relatives and friends would have started asking where are they? 4) so now we have the window replacement guys to keep quiet and then there is the cleaning crew ands maintenace staff who have to clean up the other rooms after the comspirators leave. 5) The security crew of the hotel who are monitoring the cameras have to be told to ignore all the videos of other shooters leaving the scene or 6) Who ever is in charge of the cameras was told to arrange it so the the cameras that would have spotted such activity either shouldn’t be working or were hacked in a way to show something other than reality. 7) Guns used in the other rooms and the spent shell casings would have to be cleaned up and transported out of the hotel or hidden somewhere in the hotel for later disposal. How many people do you want to assign to this task? 8) If there were multiple shooters then you would have heard evidence of that in the videos that were recorded but nobody has bothered to point that out yet and we had a vet of Afganistan in the hotel who heard the gunfire but didn’t state that there were multiple guns being fired, he just heard one shooter. If there’s anyone who could distinguish multiple guns going off rather than just one, it would be a war vet.Next you state that all the shots were fired in 4.5 minutes, I don’t know where you got that since the first call to 911 reporting shots fired occurred at 10:08 PM and the shooter wasn’t stopped until about 11:20 PM These are just a few examples off the top of my head and I’m sure others could come up with more. The point is there are just too many people that would have to keep quiet for this conspiracy to work out. I realize this whole tragedy just doesn’t make a lot of sense but to posit a theory like conspiracy to try to make sense of it just doesn’t pass the smell test either.
    .

    • Bill in IL says:

      The logical fail here is so epic I do not have time to debunk it! Suffice it to say, the only point you made is you are not a critical thinker.

  46. B says:

    sorry if I missed this, but would multiple rifles vs. reloading a make up the numbers mentioned?

  47. Bobby Newmark says:

    800 rounds per minute times 4.5 minutes is 3600 rounds, not 360. So with magazine changes and other pauses 573 rounds in 4.5 minutes is very possible. I’m not saying you are wrong about a second shooter, just about the math. 🙂

  48. Theodore says:

    Hi All,

    Check this video out when you get the chance… have any expert you know look at it…

    OK, i may be going a little crazy but three things jumped out at me:

    (1) i thought blood was suppose to be darker in color than the blood shown in the video. Especially at the 25 second mark

    (2) the various ‘loved ones’ hovering over the various ‘victims’ are not sobbing nor shrieking in a hysterical fashion, and, they seem to be talking calmly — answering the filmer’s question.

    (3) The filmer who is talking, his voice and some of his comments seem off — i am not able to explain. One example: “…I see no entry wound, I see no exit wound. I don’t know how to treat…”

    Maybe there was both some Real and some Fake at the concert event….

    https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=deb_1507066797

    duplicate:

    https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=956_1507066205

  49. max says:

    At least two shooters, two windows broken. Weapons handed to the gunmen reloaded. With so many weapons no need to reload.
    Check hotel web cam videos of elevators and hallways from the day of check in. Did anyone else enter the room from the time of his check in? Anyone else check into other rooms and then went to his room? Did room service or clean up employees notice anything.
    Did anyone leave his room earlier than when the SWAT team arrived later..much later than when the shooting started.
    But then, shooting from hundreds of yards away and hitting so many people seems hard to comprehend. But also looks as if many stayed on the field for an extended period of time.

  50. questions lead to the truth says:

    Why did the cops take over an hour to get to the shooter(s)?
    The shooting platform or pedestal is an ISIS trademark but hasn’t the religion of peace angle been flushed down the memory hole like the initial Antifa items found in the room story?
    I’m sure the bestest law enforcement agency in the land, the FBI, will take a break from Russiagate and get right on the case to find the truth…bwahahaha there’s a joke for the late night genius comedians.
    Note to the inbred elites-you’ve went to the false flag well one too many times and this isn’t 2001 when there were no smart cell phones with cameras and internet pages like this one.

  51. Old Uncle Dave says:

    Like at Pentagon, Sandy Hook and San Bernardino, there is security cam footage we will never be allowed to see. ‘Nuff said. .

  52. Jon, work on your math a bit.

  53. WidespreadGrowrh says:

    Your analysis is incomplete without knowing how many were injured being trampled. Could be the vast majority.

  54. hotzpacho says:

    My only argument is the math. 573 were not all hit with bullets. Some were injured from trampling, shrapnel, etc; not necessarily bullets. Can you find out exactly how many were hit with bullets?

  55. Ron Jeka says:

    Former neighbor of Paddock and US Marine does not buy he was shooter “No way! No how.”

    “Michael Savage interviews the neighbor of the shooter”

    Savage interviews him in link below.

    https://www.youtube.com /watch?v=EZeiunoX7bY

  56. mortimer snerd says:

    Just saw a photo of the room of the “shooter” with his body still on the floor. LOL. Where is all the brass? 600 rounds of bullet casings? The place would look like a shooting range floor. Oh…..I’m sure they picked it up to do forensics on……BEFORE THEY PICKED UP THE BODY!…..lol

  57. Buck Larsson says:

    I shot high power rifle competitively for about 20 years. I reached the
    classification of High Master, which is as far as you can get in the sport.
    Now I am just an old retired guy.

    Aside from the fact that none of these cell phone videos show any
    injured people or any blood, it finally dawned on me what was missing
    from the sound tracks. During my shooting career, I spent a lot of time
    in the “pits” at rifle ranges. These are sometimes literally pits, but
    most of the time there is a high (10 feet or so) earth berm in front of
    the targets. The targets are usually mounted in a fairly simple
    mechanism that allows them to be raised above the earth berm and lowered
    back down behind it for scoring and marking. One of the relays of
    shooters who don’t happen to be shooting at the moment stands in front
    of the targets behind the earth berm and pulls the targets down and pushes them back up
    to score them and mark them in such a way that the shot value can be
    seen and scored from as far as 1000 yards away, but usually closer. When
    you are in the pits, the bullets are passing over your head about 6 feet
    up. A supersonic rifle bullet (and according to what the police are
    claiming, these were all “military type” cartridges, which except for
    special ops stuff, is all supersonic) produces a piercing, whistling,
    very sharp crack, at least as loud as the muzzle blast as it passes by
    you in the pits. (think sonic boom, only much higher pitched and
    sharper) When it hits the impact berm, if there is one, or anything else
    solid, there is a pronounced thud. These sounds are very audible, and
    would be uncomfortable without earplugs up to 100 yards away. (close up,
    without hearing protection, the sonic crack would possibly cause hearing
    damage. That is why hearing protection in the pits is mandatory.) Those sounds are totally missing from ALL of the recordings. In the pits, you almost never hear the muzzle blast of the
    rifle back at the firing line, because it is masked by the sonic crack,
    which, from your position is MUCH louder. The bullet also arrives
    slightly before the sound from the muzzle of the rifle does. (The very definition of supersonic) In the videos, you can hear the muzzle blast clearly. If there were real high
    power rifle bullets arriving all around you, I doubt the muzzle blast
    would have been audible at all. At the angle the rounds were allegedly
    fired from, there should be audible thuds of bullets striking the
    ground. Nothing.

    I believe that this is a total hoax. I doubt there was a live round
    fired. This was theater, with sound effects.

    • Theodore says:

      I have never been in a pit like you describe, nor in a foxhole on the battle field, but, from what you are saying, I’m sure a soldier in a foxhole on the battle field would easily attest to your description.

      But, I can, for the most part, feel what you are saying… when I saw the movie “Saving Private Ryan” for the first time, I saw it in a theater, a surround-sound theater, and, in certain scenes, they took pains to re-create the sounds you describe, if I recall correctly. I do remeber saying to myself, “shit, this feels real!”

      I, too, do not hear that in all the Las Vegas cellphone video I have so far seen/heard.

      (Do most top-of-the-line cellphones come built (from slave factories in China) with shitty microphones? That they’ve only increased the quality, over time, of the moving picture processing part but decided to take no time to improve the embedded shitty mics?)

      Thanks again for pointing all this out.

    • Theodore says:

      Buck,

      Check out the first video in this article… it is from a police body cam on an officer who is behind a cinder block wall with bullets supposedly flying overhead… Let us know what your analysis is. Thanks.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4946740/Bodycam-footage-shows-cops-advancing-Las-Vegas-killer.html

    • flyinggabriel says:

      I spent hours in the pit with my grandfather when I was 12 years old. The targets we had were rotated and I had the job of patching the holes at the direction of the recorder. It’s 50 years ago, probably wouldn’t happen now. The members were mainly vets still proudly sporting their Lee-Enfield .303’s. I was taught to use one at 13, the year he died. Your description fired up the memory.

      Anyways, moving on. Check the following footage from about the 35 sec mark and watch it at 0.25. Watch right next to the plastic cup centre frame as a girl runs toward it – the impact arrives around the same time as her foot and close enough she obviously feels it. Her reaction is more obvious when played again at normal speed, as is the after-puff and the distinct sound of ricochet. There’s your live round. Cheers.

      https://www.youtube.com /watch?v=zodiGpCdBzQ

      • Theodore says:

        Between the 42 and 44 sec mark, I do hear what seem to be two ricochets.

        Parallel to this… eye-witness reports are coming in saying that more than one type of full-auto gun fire sounds were occurring simultaneously.

        So, how to account for just the two (so few) ricochets in the video vs the ostensibly overwhelming number of full-auto rounds being shot?

        I’m hypothesizing that there were additional multiple shooters “on the ground” — and, much closer to the venue, using semi-auto (not full-auto) rifles carrying out sniper operations on the crowd.

        This hypothesis is attempt to account for what Buck is saying AND hearing SO FEW ricochets in the many videos.

        My hypothesis is as follows…

        Let’s say that the “full-auto gun fire” SOUND was coming form various SOUND SPEAKERS positioned (pre-staged!) throughout the area and NOT coming from real rounds from (mechanical) machine guns. Just various “full-auto gun fire” SOUND being played by a “techno DJ”! If so, then that would provide a great cover for the snipers who were doing the killing — using the “one trigger-pull, one bullet” tactic.

        The SOUND of full-auto gun fire, NOT real full-auto bullets: This SOUND used as camouflage (to further ‘hide’ were the sniper rounds are coming from) while simultaneously doubling as a simple but very effective disorientation ‘weapon’ against the victims.

        Definitely need to know the ballistics of those wounded by bullets. But the Feds will probably keep that info close to the vest, no?

        And, I hope the SOUND of “full auto” was not played through the City of Las Vegas’s EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE, but that the jerks at least took the time to stage their own one-off speaker system. If the former, then talk about rubbing our faces in it…

        The following article is from Nov 2013…

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2497624/Las-Vegas-street-lights-record-conversations.html

        “The wireless, LED lighting, computer-operated lights are not only capable of illuminating streets, THEY CAN ALSO PLAY MUSIC, interact with pedestrians and are equipped with video screens, which can display police alerts, weather alerts and traffic information. The high tech lights can also stream live video of activity in the surrounding area.” (emphasis added)

        Yeah,… THEY CAN ALSO PLAY MUSIC

        https://intellistreets.com/Intellistreets%20Catalog.pdf, see page-4. It shows Las Vegas as one of their references.

    • Jim says:

      I remember pulling targets when I was in the Marines, I have to agree with you completely.

  58. Northroo1 says:

    Cmon one bullet could easily injure or kill more than 1 person especially when the crowd is packed tight and huddled together in fear , the bullet only has to penetrate flesh which is quite soft people.

  59. RF says:

    In the photos he had 100rd mags, 12 or so stacked and one weapon loaded.

  60. Håkon “Mr. Ralter” Elessar-Jankov says:

    I believe this destroys your whole theory. “About half of the victims taken to University Medical Center suffered graze wounds, probably from bullets that ricocheted off the ground, Fraser said. Other patients may have been struck by bullets that passed through other victims. Some were hurt as they tried to flee – or were trampled in the panic.

    But 30 were in critical condition after suffering direct hits, he said.” http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-las-vegas-shooting-20171003-story.html

  61. Eric Feldkamp says:

    Why are you even thinking about aimed shots? Imagine a football field covered with people. From the nose bleed seats you pull the trigger. No one needs to aim to have a bullet hit someone on the field. Empty a magazine into a football field sized target and you’re going to hit with every shot. With over penetration and crowd density some of your shots will hit multiple targets.

    Your math on shots per minute looms off by a good bit too. Even at a relatively slow rate of 5 per second that’s 300 rounds per minute. Sustained rate on an m16 is 700-900 rounds per minute. With 50 or 100 round mags little time is lost reloading (though they are prone to malfunctioning which reportedly happened to paddock). A rate of 300 rounds certainly isn’t stretching credulity.

    • Jim says:

      You obviously have absolutely no experience with firearms. It was over 1,000 feet from the Mandalay Bay Hotel to the concert, that is approximately 333 yards. That’s over 3 football fields away. Have you ever fired at a human sized target from 333 yards? I have, in the Marines. Hitting a human sized target from that distance is difficult, when they start moving it’s even more difficult. No way this guy was alone and killed that many people.

      • doncline says:

        C’mon, Jim. You seem to be under the mistaken impression this guy was taking aimed shots at individual people. He was not. He was spraying human-sized fish standing shoulder to shoulder in a barrel. He didn’t have to use the sights at all, just point the gun in the general direction with the muzzle lifted enough to lob the rounds into the crowd. He couldn’t miss, at least until the crowd dispersed. Each time they started running again they presented a human wall that he couldn’t miss.

        […]

        • Jim says:

          He wasn’t aiming? So you were there watching him? Once people started getting hit they must have panicked and run, the majority of the rounds coming in that hit people most likely would have been non-lethal hits. The official story is a load of B.S.

      • Joe says:

        Firing at one human from that distance might be difficult. Firing at 20,000 densely packed people with a bump stocked semiautomatic rifle would be fish in a barrel. The fact that he didnt kill more people is the biggest credit to the 1 shooter theory.

      • David says:

        Then you were an absolutely terrible shot in the Marines. Hitting a human sized target at 333 yards is pretty damned easy with the firearms used and the optics shown. And yeah, I have a great deal of experience. Head shots at 1,000 yards are routine, sometimes off-hand (not using a rifle rest or bipod), but I can’t do it every single time. It also takes a heavier caliber, such as a .308 due to bullet drop and wind deflection. The truth is, Paddock was not too bright. Automatic fire was not the best way to take aimed shots, so he probably didn’t bother (spray and pray), but even at 333 yards (or whatever it was), he was bound to hit a lot of people. And yeah, just one guy could do all of this, pretty easily from his perch. […]

  62. krys says:

    As much as I like TRUE conspiracies such as the JFK, MLK jr, RFK, Sandy Hook, 9/11 & so many other real events, I have to say that in the rush to offer an alternative to the lamestream media’s propaganda, it’s possible to grab at too many (non-existent?) straws.There are a LOT of comments here made by very knowledgeable people with far more experience & insight than I possess. I HOPE the REAL truth comes out about this tragic event but like so many events in the past, it may not happen. What REALLY happened may not ever really be discovered unless some private individuals take it upon themselves to do the right thing & get rid of the conjectures, bologna and faulty thinking from far too many. Was there more than 1 shooter? I honestly don’t know. There ARE quite a few valid points made that seems to indicate that this may be true but then again, it’s possible that much of what initially seemed true (from a conspiratorial perspective) may not be.

    • doncline says:

      The only thing leading anyone to think there were multiple shooters is the cop’s on the radio claiming they heard more than one shooter, and what the cops heard was multiple echoes from multiple high-rise buildings in the area adding and canceling each other out. If you listen to the tapes you can hear the gunfire adding and canceling.

    • David says:

      It should be obvious already – the only “conspiracy” here is what the extremists are now manufacturing about this story. There never was any conspiracy. […]

    • ruffsoft says:

      RE Sandy Hook (a poison the well promotion of the CIA): Newtown’s only undertaker (or is he another of the hundreds of hired actors?) stated: “Honan said his staff at the funeral home has been given the grim task of trying to hide the bullet holes for a week’s worth of wakes.

      “We’re trained to cover them up,” he said. “We have people with special skills to do that. Some caskets will be open and some will be closed.”

      An open casket, he added, “brings the reality of the situation to light and helps bring closure” for the families. Honan said his clients are “handling it well overall . . . considering what is happening.”

      Just as bad money drives out good, absurd conspiracy theories, serve to protect the guilty from the valid conspiracy allegations. The only beneficiaries of mass shootings are the gun makers whose sales soar and whose stock prices rise. Cui bono?

      • doncline says:

        And rightfully so, given that the only other beneficiaries of a mass shooting are the Leftist monsters who dance in the blood of the fallen in their efforts to deprive everyone of their rights — all their rights, not merely their right to keep and bear arms, for without the right to keep and bear arms we have no defense against the destruction of all ou rights. Oh, and do I need to point out the destruction of our 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, and 10th Amendment rights occasioned by background checks compelled as a precondition to the exercise of the government privilege to keep and bear arms? Government has no authority to issue or deny permission to exercise a right, and background checks have never prevented a crime in the history of the planet — and were never intended to. They were and are intended to sucker law-abiding citizens into waiving the aforementioned rights so government can claim they have none left to exercise when the ‘permission’ is revoked.

        • flyinggabriel says:

          I agree with both bonos. If we could only nail who these “Leftists monsters” really are ….

          • doncline says:

            Given that nearly every politician with a ‘D’ after his or her name has used the Las Vegas tragedy to justify more gun control at the same time they admit, categorically, that no gun control law would have prevented the Las Vegas tragedy — and now ten turncoat Republicans have signed onto a bill imposing a five- or ten-year sentence for anyone found to be in possession of a “rate of fire enhancement device” — without identifying what that may be, shoelace, belt-loop, lighter trigger pull, shorter reset, quicker finger, etc., making the legislation ‘void for vagueness’ — I think it should be fairly easy to identify who these liberal monsters are.

  63. Michael Jerome says:

    I’m not saying we have all the facts or that the official story is always to be taken at face value… But you’re assuming too much.
    There were 500+ injured… but there’s been no mention that all of these injuries were due to bullet wounds. Many were probably trampled during the frantic exit.
    Crime scene photos clearly show Surefire extended magazines were present… 60- or 100-round capacity. Not ordinary 30-round mags.
    Rate of discharge can easily be 600+ rounds per minute. A 100-round mag can empty in 10 seconds. Assuming a very slow 20-second mag change, you’re looking at 200 rounds discharged per minute, conservatively. Five minutes of shooting, 1000 rounds. Only 59 of those rounds would have had to cause the fatalities. More rounds hit people, to be sure… But plenty of rounds made it down range to cause those injuries, even from just one shooter.
    The cab driver video/audio is interesting… It definitely sounds like shooting from two locations. But wouldn’t all the press and cameras on the Mandalay Bay have caught another window broken out or open? The flashing light could very easily have been a simple strobe party light.
    It doesn’t take much effort at being covert to take weapons and ammo to a hotel room. There are suitcases long enough to easily accommodate those weapons without disassembly or modification.
    I wonder how he fired with the bump stocks… Prone position with those is difficult, but would lend a little more accuracy.
    Will we ever know the full story? Who knows. But we need to be honest about the selected weapon systems, their capabilities, casualty report ambiguities, the difficulty of sound reflection in a concrete jungle like Vegas, etc.

  64. Joe says:

    Why would every injured necessarily have been shot? Do you really think nobody was trampled? […]

  65. I have always seen it reported as 500+ “injured,” not “shot.” It is possible the high number of reported injuries include those who were hurt in ways other than directly being hit by gunfire (e.g. bumps and bruises and cuts from ricochet, fragmenting bullets, injured in falling or being knocked down, etc.).

  66. Matthew Reynolds says:

    […]

    Only about 150 people were hit by gun fire. The rest of the injuries were from being trampled.
    He had preloaded as many as 8 weapons with bump fire stocks. This meant he only had to move to the next gun, not change the magazine.
    The rate of fire on the bump fire stocks was reported as being as high as 400 rounds per minute.
    The magazines in question are reported as holding 100 rounds, not 30 rounds.
    The total duration of the attack was reported at 11 minutes, not 4 and a half.

    My analysis is this. In the first four minutes or so, he was quickly switching between loaded bump fire weapons, firing 15 second bursts of 100 rounds a couple times a minute. After that, the rate of fire drastically decreased as he began to reload his weapons, but firing continued sporadically for the next six minutes.

    He fired perhaps 1600 rounds. His overall accuracy was dismal. He seems to have sprayed bullets into as much as a 700 yard wide circle. Only because the crowd was large and dense did he hit anyone, mostly in the first few minutes before the crowd began to disperse and find cover.

    • Matthew Reynolds says:

      And it occurs to me that there is an additional problem with your math. You are assuming 1 round equals at most 1 injury. In the early stages of this, that’s probably not true. If he was firing jacketed .223 into a dense crowd, you’d fully expect bullets to go right through someone and into someone else with not trivial probability.

  67. Bill Cochran says:

    I am an untrained shooter and never have been in the military. In addition, I am old hence weak and shaky! I will give you $100 for every time I miss a refrigerator at 300 yards if you give me $50 for every hit. You’re using faulty logic to sensationalize your story.

  68. streamfortyseven says:

    There were two kinds of rifles fired, and they are identifiable by their audio signatures. One is an M240B, firing .308 calibre at a cyclic rate of 600 RPM. The other is a AR-15, firing .223 calibre at a varying cyclic rate of 650 – 750 RPM, this is obviously a bump trigger. The extreme end of the zone of effective fire for .223 is 400 meters, which is the distance from the hotel to the target area, so it would be reasonable to see superficial wounding from those rounds; the zone of effective fire for .308 is 1250 meters, and 400 meters is well within that zone, so it would be reasonable to see severe wounding, and bullets passing through more than one person. As to muzzle flash, the M240B is equipped with a flash suppressor, and in that lighting environment, you’d have to have a video camera with telephoto lens pointed at the window where the M240 was to have the slightest chance of getting imagery of that muzzle flash, a phone camera wouldn’t do the trick. I’ve seen video showing muzzle flash from the 32nd floor firing point, so apparently there was no flash suppressor on that rifle. From the dispersal of those flashes, it’s likely a bump trigger was used. Finally, I’ve pulled targets and heard .308 and .223 fire overhead, and yes, there’s an extremely loud whip crack sound overhead, which at 500 yards, at least for .308, comes before you hear the muzzle blast. Perhaps there was some sort of noise limiter on those phones which attenuated the whip-crack noise, there might be drop-outs in the sound levels when that occurred.

  69. streamfortyseven says:

    As for anomalous responses, unless you’ve pulled targets or been under fire, you won’t know what is going on or how to deal with it. The correct response is to get down as low as you can and get behind cover as quickly as you can. People were standing up and pointing, and all of that, or taking their chances and running. And when adrenaline is running, you can get shot numerous times and not really notice it – the case of the guy being shot three times in the chest and walking around and talking is a case of this.

  70. Christopher Marlowe says:

    I think there were ZERO shooters. I think this was a HOAX. Like sandy hoax: no one was shot and no one was killed.

    • Theodore says:

      based on the evidence i have analyzed re: Vegas, there are elements of real and fake in the event.

      also, see…

      https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2017/10/06/vegas-shooting-real-vs-fake/

    • David Crowe says:

      F**k you Christopher Marlowe and all the other s**theads who are denying the obvious fact that people died. F**k you. You are evil. You are scum. You are heartless.

    • doncline says:

      Sorry: Unlike Sandy Hook, where the coffins were sealed and the parents never saw their children lying in state, too many paramedics and coroners and reporters and private citizens saw the dead bodies … or were you just being sarcastic?

      • ruffsoft says:

        “Honan (Newtown’s only undertaker said his staff at the funeral home has been given the grim task of trying to hide the bullet holes for a week’s worth of wakes.

        “We’re trained to cover them up,” he said. “We have people with special skills to do that. Some caskets will be open and some will be closed.”

        An open casket, he added, “brings the reality of the situation to light and helps bring closure” for the families. Honan said his clients are “handling it well overall . . . considering what is happening.”

        [Who] has been lying to you?

    • ruffsoft says:

      The hospital said of the 500 injured 120 were shot. Some paranoid lunatics are saying How can it be that of 500 shot and injured, none died beyond the 58 immediately killed (Paul Craig Roberts uses this question to support the theory it is all a fake shooting with nearly 600 paid victims and 200 doctors and nurses being paid crisis actors at the hospital, plus the 200 who were somehow disappeared.
      1. Not all 58 were immediately killed.
      2.The hospital reported that of the120 with gunshot wounds 13 died at the hospital.

      Facts are such party poopers!

  71. Allan says:

    The phrase “489 people were injured” (Wikipedia) is not equivalent to ‘489 people were shot without being killed’. Also, there is a sonic phenomemon which can explain what some insist is evidence of multiple shooters:

    ((ECHOS))

    […]

  72. Dr. Ron Martinelli says:

    In no way does this article constitute any type of credible forensic opinion. The author’s opinions are fraught with misunderstanding of ballistics, velocity, trajectory and what those Dynamics in combination to striking hard surfaces and people can do with respect to significantly increasing injury and death rates.

    First, the author has absolutely no idea of what type of ammunition Mr. Paddock used in his high-powered and semi-automatic rifles. If he was using fully metal jacketed ammunition in High Velocity weapons such as a 223 or 308 cartridge, those projectiles would easily penetrate through a human body and strike someone else. You could have two people shot with one round easily. Next the sniper was shooting from an elevated platform in both semi and fully automatic mode. Many of those rounds impacted the hard concrete and asphalt surfaces of the concert venue and then ricocheted outwards and upwards. Many of the wounded and killed were injured and killed by richohets and splay. This also increased significantly the numbers of people severely wounded and killed.

    There is no forensic evidence nor any witnesses attesting to any Sniper being at ground level or in any other elevated positions. Those people that stated that they saw two Shooters in the Mandalay Bay Hotel, failed to appreciate the reflective quality of the windows throughout the hotel building. Those reflective Windows mirrored the muzzle flashes from paddocks rifles.

    […] completely unsupported by credible witness testimony or by any forensic evidence. […] Let forensic experts speak for the truth of the crime scene […]

    Dr. Ron Martinelli
    Forensic Criminologist
    […]

    • Theodore says:

      Hi Dr Ron,

      By the way, has any one posted a video — that you are aware of and could point me to — in which we can clearly hear a MULTITUDE of bullets-whistling-by sounds and/or a MULTITUDE of bullet-richocet sounds (you know, the real ‘war scene’ stuff)… say, a video/audio recording by a witness/victim that had his iTelphone rolling at the time he was subjected to the incoming fire in the concert pit?

      So far, i only find videos were i hear just one or two bullets actually whizzing by the victims in the pit — all the while, the ‘Gatling gun’ SOUNDS drone on and on and on in the distant background — as if those distant SOUNDS were a recording being broadcasted out of those darn Intellistreet lights theys got all over down there on those Vegas boulevard streets…

    • doncline says:

      Thanks, Doc. I was beginning to think I was yelling into a vacuum. And the reflections on the window likely weren’t coming from Paddock’s weapons, which were not located at an acute angle to the glass. They were likely reflecting strobe lights from the concessionaire’s stands.

      • Steve Scott says:

        looked like emergency light reflection to me (police ambulance). if you watch some of the so called second shooter muzzle flashes not only so they not line up with the sound at times but some times the flashes appear after the sound. this rules out the throw distance theory unless the conspirators changed the laws of physics to make sound travel faster light to throw people off.

    • Steve Scott says:

      love your take but as I mentioned in a later comment I have never heard that there were over 500 shot, I have heard over 500 injuries have to wonder if a lot of these injuries are a result of 22000 panicked people fleeing gun fire and not the gun fire itself

    • JL says:

      Good info, but the guy was not a sniper by definition.

  73. Steve Scott says:

    […] it was never reported that there were over 500 people shot. it was reported more 500 people were injured .I would assume well over half these injuries were related to 22,000 people in panic mode trying to escape (trampled. elbowed, fallen, pushed crushed). The amount of time firing I have read was about 9 to 12 minutes not 4 to 5 minutes. as far as the amount of skill and stamina it would take to fire these weapons I have found videos of of six year olds firing ar15 assault rifles accurately on youtube. as far as his accuracy I would assume it would be harder to hit than miss when you are firing into a one acre sea of 22,0000 people standing shoulder to shoulder. Everyone took cover after 10 or 15 seconds come on are you stupid you think 22,000 people who were fenced into an open field found cover in less than 15 seconds, I would guess it to longer than that for the whole crowd to realize exactly what was going on. Changing magazines are stupid you say he had all these weapons in his room for no reason think about it he had what 13 guns fitted with bump stalks
    all preloaded, he did’nt have to change a magazine until he emptied 13 magazines he simply had to pick up the next gun. Jon seems to think it would be unlikely that that paddock could get could get all these guns to his room unnoticed but seems to think that some unknown people involved in some sort of set up could bring the same number of guns into a room not belonging to them but comped to a “well known high stakes gambler” without being noticed. […]

  74. Hawaiiguy Kailua says:

    Don’t forget the “shooter” hit one guy in the right chest 3 times! We know this because his best friend was at the concert with him and after using a shirt to stop the blood, stuck around and gave untold interviews to TV crews of the harrowing incident. Luckily we got a followup interview the following day with the victim. He was in such bad shape from three bullets ripping through his right chest, lung and back he actually had to have a small bandage put on his chest.. Luckily for all involved his best friend was in the hospital room for the exclusive interview, for of it wasn’t for his bravery to stick around and do interviews we may never have witnessed the miraculous recovery of his friend. Think he’s going to recover just fine as the bullets seemed to hit everything but his body.

  75. JL says:

    It doesnt take military experience to do what he did. Guns were invented to be easy to fire, cf crossbows, cf bows. He fired at a massive crowd of 20,000 people. Shooting randomly, its almost a given that 1 in 40 would get hit with bullets, shrapnel, and stampeding. That more werent hit is a testament to how quickly everyone took cover. If there were a second shooter, depending on location, the death and injury toll would have been doubled. A second shooter is plausible, but the investigators said they found no one interacting with Paddock in surveillance video.

  76. Theodore says:

    Fleshing out my theory on there being multiple shooters — both human and human-operated drones carrying long rifles…

    https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2017/10/13/vegas-shooting-concert-workers-phone-footage-wiped-clean-by-fbi/#comment-265894

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